Hi, Ida !

Sure appreciate your time and effort !  However, the “interesting  problem”
 isn’t as difficult as it might seem. I have access to the Family Bible  
that belonged to John W. Spencer’s father, with a complete list of names and  
birth dates. My great-grandfather was one of John W.’s younger brothers, and 
he  (my grandfather) was kind enough to leave me with a list of his 
siblings.  William P. was NOT recorded in the Bible and did not appear on my 
Gr-Grandpa’s  list. There is, however, a record on the books of Halifax County for 
1880 of  John W. being granted the guardianship of William P. Hence, my 
original  question: “What is the difference (or is there any) between a 
"guardianship" and  an adoption, in the context of the 1880s in Virginia?” Mainly, I
’m trying to  discover if it is possible that the father of William P. 
might be discovered  through genealogical means, rather than DNA. There are 
living “direct male line”  descendants of William P. whose names are Spencer, 
but whether they have enough  interest to have a DNA test, I could not say.

John W. Spencer’s father was married twice. He had six children by his  
first wife before her death, then remarried and had ten more. That explains the 
 wide spread of ages for the other siblings.

William P. Russell was not the nephew of John W. Spencer. He was a  “Russell
” and not a Spencer and was not born to any Spencers.

I do intend to travel to Halifax County courthouse later this week and  
might be able to solve some of the “mystery.” Perhaps, someone at the 
courthouse  will be able to answer my original question.

THANKS, Ida, for your help,
Carole



In a message dated 11/9/2009 8:14:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

Carole:

An interesting problem presents itself. In the 1880  census taken in 
June for Halifax County, William P. Spencer age 8 appears  as the 
brother of the head of household, John W. Spencer age 45. The  
household includes his sister Malinda age 26, and his brother (?) 
John  L age 17, besides John W's wife and cousin,  This is a very wide  
spread in ages for siblings; it seems impossible for John W and  
William P to have had the same mother. How can the different surname  
be explained? Was William really a nephew of John W, perhaps 
Malinda's  child? Or John W's father's child out of wedlock? Or John 
W's child out of  wedlock? Did the census taker's eye slip as he was 
copying data from his  notes to the census ledger sheet?

There are no Halifax County cases in  the chancery index online. Are 
they still in the county courthouse? Have  you checked deeds, wills 
and administrations of estates? Probate or  administration could last 
until after the youngest child reached 21. A  chancery suit could drag 
it out even longer.

At least in some  places in the US in the 1800s, a child born out of 
wedlock could carry the  biological father's surname. I don't know 
whether that was the case in  Halifax Co., VA.

If you have a living direct male line descendant of  William P whose 
surname is Spencer, you could have his Y-DNA tested. There  are 
already 5 closely related men named Russell from the late 1700s and  
early 1800s in Southside Virginia counties who are represented in the  
Russell Y-DNA project  
<http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/russell/> through Family Tree  
DNA <http://www.familytreedna.com/>. My ancestor is one of the 5 in  
haplogroup R1b, lineage V. The paper trail for these 5 is still 
pretty  murky. Most likely this testing would show you whether William 
P's father  was a Spencer, a Russell, or someone else.

It is best to go in for  Y-DNA testing through an established surname 
project. After testing you  can switch to another project or more than 
one, wherever the matches lead  you. You would need to post a pedigree 
for the man being tested on  
<http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/?topic=2908> and explain by  
e-mail to the administrator why someone with the surname Spencer is  
requesting testing under the Russell project.

--Ida Skarson  McCormick, [log in to unmask]


At 06:10 AM 11/6/2009, Carole D. Bryant  wrote:
><snip>
>In the case, I'm looking at, the surname of  the person placed in
>"guardianship" was CHANGED to that of the  guardian. So far, all I've 
>found on  the
>case  is:
>
>"On the motion of John W. Spencer and for reasons appearing  to the Court 
he
>  is permitted to qualify as the Guardian of Wm P.  Russell<snip>October 
1880
>
>Basically, I'm trying to learn  HOW TO FIND OUT who Wm P.  Russell's 
natural
>parents were. It  seems like understanding "guardianship" might  be the
>first step.  <snip>

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