Hi, Ida ! Sure appreciate your time and effort ! However, the “interesting problem” isn’t as difficult as it might seem. I have access to the Family Bible that belonged to John W. Spencer’s father, with a complete list of names and birth dates. My great-grandfather was one of John W.’s younger brothers, and he (my grandfather) was kind enough to leave me with a list of his siblings. William P. was NOT recorded in the Bible and did not appear on my Gr-Grandpa’s list. There is, however, a record on the books of Halifax County for 1880 of John W. being granted the guardianship of William P. Hence, my original question: “What is the difference (or is there any) between a "guardianship" and an adoption, in the context of the 1880s in Virginia?” Mainly, I ’m trying to discover if it is possible that the father of William P. might be discovered through genealogical means, rather than DNA. There are living “direct male line” descendants of William P. whose names are Spencer, but whether they have enough interest to have a DNA test, I could not say. John W. Spencer’s father was married twice. He had six children by his first wife before her death, then remarried and had ten more. That explains the wide spread of ages for the other siblings. William P. Russell was not the nephew of John W. Spencer. He was a “Russell ” and not a Spencer and was not born to any Spencers. I do intend to travel to Halifax County courthouse later this week and might be able to solve some of the “mystery.” Perhaps, someone at the courthouse will be able to answer my original question. THANKS, Ida, for your help, Carole In a message dated 11/9/2009 8:14:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Carole: An interesting problem presents itself. In the 1880 census taken in June for Halifax County, William P. Spencer age 8 appears as the brother of the head of household, John W. Spencer age 45. The household includes his sister Malinda age 26, and his brother (?) John L age 17, besides John W's wife and cousin, This is a very wide spread in ages for siblings; it seems impossible for John W and William P to have had the same mother. How can the different surname be explained? Was William really a nephew of John W, perhaps Malinda's child? Or John W's father's child out of wedlock? Or John W's child out of wedlock? Did the census taker's eye slip as he was copying data from his notes to the census ledger sheet? There are no Halifax County cases in the chancery index online. Are they still in the county courthouse? Have you checked deeds, wills and administrations of estates? Probate or administration could last until after the youngest child reached 21. A chancery suit could drag it out even longer. At least in some places in the US in the 1800s, a child born out of wedlock could carry the biological father's surname. I don't know whether that was the case in Halifax Co., VA. If you have a living direct male line descendant of William P whose surname is Spencer, you could have his Y-DNA tested. There are already 5 closely related men named Russell from the late 1700s and early 1800s in Southside Virginia counties who are represented in the Russell Y-DNA project <http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/russell/> through Family Tree DNA <http://www.familytreedna.com/>. My ancestor is one of the 5 in haplogroup R1b, lineage V. The paper trail for these 5 is still pretty murky. Most likely this testing would show you whether William P's father was a Spencer, a Russell, or someone else. It is best to go in for Y-DNA testing through an established surname project. After testing you can switch to another project or more than one, wherever the matches lead you. You would need to post a pedigree for the man being tested on <http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/?topic=2908> and explain by e-mail to the administrator why someone with the surname Spencer is requesting testing under the Russell project. --Ida Skarson McCormick, [log in to unmask] At 06:10 AM 11/6/2009, Carole D. Bryant wrote: ><snip> >In the case, I'm looking at, the surname of the person placed in >"guardianship" was CHANGED to that of the guardian. So far, all I've >found on the >case is: > >"On the motion of John W. Spencer and for reasons appearing to the Court he > is permitted to qualify as the Guardian of Wm P. Russell<snip>October 1880 > >Basically, I'm trying to learn HOW TO FIND OUT who Wm P. Russell's natural >parents were. It seems like understanding "guardianship" might be the >first step. <snip> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html