Oh Joan:
This is the FIRST email I have gotten from VA HIST list since I
resubbed. I'm afraid it came out just awful here. I hope it didn't
look this way to everyone else. Seems they have a BIG prolem with
quotation marks and spaces. But maybe it just my browser (Sarari,
for MAC) that didn't "get it."
I hope you get some replies from this for it is quite fascinating and
only you would have dug up such an arcane issue.
Craig
On Dec 5, 2008, at 12:00 AM, VA-HIST automatic digest system wrote:
> There are 5 messages totalling 479 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. 1785 Heads of Households census (5)
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:11:58 -0800
> From: Joan Horsley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: 1785 Heads of Households census
>
> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many
> residen=
> ts in each county (sometimes it appears close to the majority)
> listed as ha=
> ving no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94
> have one o=
> r more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with
> neither. I ca=
> nnot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act calling for
> this cens=
> us or elsewhere that would explain why so many people had none.=A0=20
> =A0
> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An
> act to asc=
> ertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the
> number of pe=
> ople, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from
> each perso=
> n within [each county precinct] of the number of white persons in
> each fami=
> ly therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing dwelling-
> houses fro=
> m other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)=A0=20
> =A0
> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article
> of Confed=
> eration and establish the "value of all land within each state,
> granted to =
> or surveyed for any person, as such land and the buildings and
> improvements=
> thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a personal tax law
> but a va=
> luation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make any
> difference for t=
> his census whether a particular person owned versus rented his/her
> dwelling=
> or outbuilding,=A0as I previously thought might be one explanation.
> =A0
> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer
> this quest=
> ion, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the
> microfilm for=
> this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it
> through IL=
> L.
> =A0
> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am
> missing. =A0Th=
> anks very much for any help.
> =A0
> Joan Horsley
> =A0
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:41:25 -0700
> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census
>
> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties =20
> where there is some great detail reported on portions of the county
> =20
> lists. If I recall, when contrasted to the published volume meant
> to =20
> supplement the census of 1790, the other buildings would likely
> have =20
> included cabins which do show up for many people in Halifax who
> have =20
> no dwelling house listed. Those without any buildings were probably
> =20
> renters whose housing was being reported on the land lords list.
> The =20
> Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, roofing
> etc. =20=
>
> What distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of
> the =20
> tax man--an examination of the originals would really help you, I =20
> believe--good luck--Mick Nicholls
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote:
>
>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so
>> many =20=
>
>> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the =20
>> majority) listed as having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those
>> with =20=
>
>> no =93dwelling=94 have one or more "other building(s)," but some =20
>> families are listed with neither. I cannot find a definition of =20
>> "dwelling-house" in the Act calling for this census or elsewhere =20
>> that would explain why so many people had none.
>>
>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An
>> act =20=
>
>> to ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and =20
>> the number of people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law
>> required =20=
>
>> "a list from each person within [each county precinct] of the =20
>> number of white persons in each family therein, and the number of =20
>> buildings, distinguishing dwelling-houses from other =20
>> buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)
>>
>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article =20
>> of Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each =20
>> state, granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the
>> =20
>> buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this
>> =20
>> is not a personal tax law but a valuation of state-wide land, it =20
>> seems it would not make any difference for this census whether a =20
>> particular person owned versus rented his/her dwelling or =20
>> outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one explanation.
>>
>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer =20
>> this question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not
>> seen =20=
>
>> the microfilm for this census, which may provide some clue, and =20
>> I=92ve ordered it through ILL.
>>
>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am =20
>> missing. Thanks very much for any help.
>>
>> Joan Horsley
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20
>> instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:03:34 -0800
> From: Joan Horsley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census
>
> Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of
> detail availa=
> ble in the originals--can't wait to see them.=A0(For anyone else
> interested=
> , it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel number 1263. Explanation of
> what is=
> included is at: 1790 Virginia Census VA-NOTES <http://
> www.lva.virginia.gov=
> /whatwehave/census/va2_1790census.htm>=A0)
> =A0
> I have also wondered if for some=A0who had no "dwelling" but had
> "other bui=
> ldings"=A0that might mean=A0where they lived was also used as a
> store, or a=
> craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For example, one
> person I iden=
> tified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall any mention or indication
> of shops =
> in the Halifax & Pittsy information?
> =A0
> I appreciate your reply.--Joan
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM
>
> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties
> where th=
> ere
> is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If I
> recall,=
> when
> contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census
> of 1790, =
> the
> other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up
> for many
> people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without
> any buil=
> dings
> were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land
> lords li=
> st.
> The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding,
> roofing etc. W=
> hat
> distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the tax
> man--an
> examination of the originals would really help you, I believe--good
> luck--M=
> ick
> Nicholls
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote:
>
>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many
> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the
> majority) liste=
> d as
> having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94
> have one
> or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with
> neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act
> calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so many
> people =
> had
> none.
>> =20
>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An
>> act to
> ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the
> number of
> people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from
> each
> person within [each county precinct] of the number of white persons
> in each
> family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing
> dwelling-houses=
> from
> other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)
>> =20
>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of
> Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state,
> granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the
> buildings and
> improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a
> personal tax
> law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make any
> difference for this census whether a particular person owned versus
> rented
> his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one
> explanation.
>> =20
>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer this
> question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the
> microfil=
> m for
> this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it
> through ILL=
> .
>> =20
>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am
>> missing.=20
> Thanks very much for any help.
>> =20
>> Joan Horsley
>> =20
>> =20
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions
> at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:33:38 -0700
> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census
>
> A word of caution. Only part of the Halfiax list and I think one of
> =20
> the Pitt lists have any real detail. The Bates portion of the
> Halifax =20=
>
> list does have barns, sheds, a mill or two and some shops as well
> as =20=
>
> cabins, dairies, smoke, corn, tobo houses etc. Most of the farms/=20
> plantations are not elaborate. Halifax and Pitts are not long
> settled =20=
>
> by the time these lists were taken--Mick
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Joan Horsley wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of =20
>> detail available in the originals--can't wait to see them. (For =20
>> anyone else interested, it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel =20
>> number 1263. Explanation of what is included is at: 1790 Virginia =20
>> Census VA-NOTES <http://www.lva.virginia.gov/whatwehave/census/=20
>> va2_1790census.htm> )
>>
>> I have also wondered if for some who had no "dwelling" but had =20
>> "other buildings" that might mean where they lived was also used
>> as =20=
>
>> a store, or a craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For =20
>> example, one person I identified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall =20
>> any mention or indication of shops in the Halifax & Pittsy =20
>> information?
>>
>> I appreciate your reply.--Joan
>>
>> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> =20
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM
>>
>> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties
>> =20
>> where there
>> is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If
>> I =20=
>
>> recall, when
>> contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census =20
>> of 1790, the
>> other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up
>> =20
>> for many
>> people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without
>> =20
>> any buildings
>> were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land
>> =20
>> lords list.
>> The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, =20
>> roofing etc. What
>> distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the
>> tax =20=
>
>> man--an
>> examination of the originals would really help you, I believe--
>> good =20=
>
>> luck--Mick
>> Nicholls
>> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote:
>>
>>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many
>> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the =20
>> majority) listed as
>> having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94 =
> have one
>> or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with
>> neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act
>> calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so
>> many =20=
>
>> people had
>> none.
>>>
>>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An
>>> act =
> to
>> ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the =20
>> number of
>> people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from =
> each
>> person within [each county precinct] of the number of white
>> persons =20=
>
>> in each
>> family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing =20
>> dwelling-houses from
>> other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)
>>>
>>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of
>> Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state,
>> granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the =20
>> buildings and
>> improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a =20
>> personal tax
>> law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make
>> any
>> difference for this census whether a particular person owned
>> versus =20=
>
>> rented
>> his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one
>> explanation.
>>>
>>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer
>>> this
>> question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the
>> =20
>> microfilm for
>> this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it =20
>> through ILL.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am
>>> missing.
>> Thanks very much for any help.
>>>
>>> Joan Horsley
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________
>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20
>>> instructions
>> at
>>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20
>> instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20
>> instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:40:06 -0500
> From: "Barbara Vines Little, CG" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census
>
> I have published some of the Botetourt county ones in the /Magazine of
> Virginia Genealogy/ (Volume 45 (2007), No. 1 & 2 and 46, No. 4
> (currently at the printer)/. /You might want to take a look at these.
>
> Frances J. Niederer comments on some of these early houses
> beginning on
> p. 5 of /The Town of Fincastle, Virginia/ (Charlottesville, Va.:
> University Press of Virginia, 1965)
>
> Barbara Vines Little, CG
> Dominion Research Services
> PO Box 1273
> Orange, VA 22960
>
> 540-832-3473
> [log in to unmask]
>
> CG, Certified Genealogist, is a service mark of the Board for
> Certification of Genealogists, used under
> license by board certified genealogists after periodic evaluation,
> and the board name is registered in the
> US Patent & Trademark Office.
>
>
>
> Joan Horsley wrote:
>> Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of
>> detail available in the originals--can't wait to see them. (For
>> anyone else interested, it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel
>> number 1263. Explanation of what is included is at: 1790 Virginia
>> Census VA-NOTES <http://www.lva.virginia.gov/whatwehave/census/
>> va2_1790census.htm> )
>>
>> I have also wondered if for some who had no "dwelling" but had
>> "other buildings" that might mean where they lived was also used
>> as a store, or a craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For
>> example, one person I identified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall
>> any mention or indication of shops in the Halifax & Pittsy
>> information?
>>
>> I appreciate your reply.--Joan
>>
>> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM
>>
>> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties
>> where there
>> is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If
>> I recall, when
>> contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census
>> of 1790, the
>> other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up
>> for many
>> people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without
>> any buildings
>> were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land
>> lords list.
>> The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding,
>> roofing etc. What
>> distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the
>> tax man--an
>> examination of the originals would really help you, I believe--
>> good luck--Mick
>> Nicholls
>> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many
>>>
>> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the
>> majority) listed as
>> having no "dwelling-house?” Most of those with no “dwelling” have one
>> or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with
>> neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act
>> calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so
>> many people had
>> none.
>>
>>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from “An
>>> act to
>>>
>> ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the
>> number of
>> people, within this commonwealth.” The law required "a list from each
>> person within [each county precinct] of the number of white
>> persons in each
>> family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing
>> dwelling-houses from
>> other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)
>>
>>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of
>>>
>> Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state,
>> granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the
>> buildings and
>> improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a
>> personal tax
>> law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make
>> any
>> difference for this census whether a particular person owned
>> versus rented
>> his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one
>> explanation.
>>
>>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer
>>> this
>>>
>> question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the
>> microfilm for
>> this census, which may provide some clue, and I’ve ordered it
>> through ILL.
>>
>>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am
>>> missing.
>>>
>> Thanks very much for any help.
>>
>>> Joan Horsley
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________
>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>>> instructions
>>>
>> at
>>
>>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of VA-HIST Digest - 1 Dec 2008 to 4 Dec 2008 (#2008-119)
> ************************************************************
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