Oh Joan: This is the FIRST email I have gotten from VA HIST list since I resubbed. I'm afraid it came out just awful here. I hope it didn't look this way to everyone else. Seems they have a BIG prolem with quotation marks and spaces. But maybe it just my browser (Sarari, for MAC) that didn't "get it." I hope you get some replies from this for it is quite fascinating and only you would have dug up such an arcane issue. Craig On Dec 5, 2008, at 12:00 AM, VA-HIST automatic digest system wrote: > There are 5 messages totalling 479 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. 1785 Heads of Households census (5) > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:11:58 -0800 > From: Joan Horsley <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: 1785 Heads of Households census > > In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many > residen= > ts in each county (sometimes it appears close to the majority) > listed as ha= > ving no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94 > have one o= > r more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with > neither. I ca= > nnot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act calling for > this cens= > us or elsewhere that would explain why so many people had none.=A0=20 > =A0 > The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An > act to asc= > ertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the > number of pe= > ople, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from > each perso= > n within [each county precinct] of the number of white persons in > each fami= > ly therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing dwelling- > houses fro= > m other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417)=A0=20 > =A0 > The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article > of Confed= > eration and establish the "value of all land within each state, > granted to = > or surveyed for any person, as such land and the buildings and > improvements= > thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a personal tax law > but a va= > luation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make any > difference for t= > his census whether a particular person owned versus rented his/her > dwelling= > or outbuilding,=A0as I previously thought might be one explanation. > =A0 > Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer > this quest= > ion, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the > microfilm for= > this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it > through IL= > L. > =A0 > In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am > missing. =A0Th= > anks very much for any help. > =A0 > Joan Horsley > =A0 > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:41:25 -0700 > From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census > > I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties =20 > where there is some great detail reported on portions of the county > =20 > lists. If I recall, when contrasted to the published volume meant > to =20 > supplement the census of 1790, the other buildings would likely > have =20 > included cabins which do show up for many people in Halifax who > have =20 > no dwelling house listed. Those without any buildings were probably > =20 > renters whose housing was being reported on the land lords list. > The =20 > Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, roofing > etc. =20= > > What distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of > the =20 > tax man--an examination of the originals would really help you, I =20 > believe--good luck--Mick Nicholls > On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote: > >> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so >> many =20= > >> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the =20 >> majority) listed as having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those >> with =20= > >> no =93dwelling=94 have one or more "other building(s)," but some =20 >> families are listed with neither. I cannot find a definition of =20 >> "dwelling-house" in the Act calling for this census or elsewhere =20 >> that would explain why so many people had none. >> >> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An >> act =20= > >> to ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and =20 >> the number of people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law >> required =20= > >> "a list from each person within [each county precinct] of the =20 >> number of white persons in each family therein, and the number of =20 >> buildings, distinguishing dwelling-houses from other =20 >> buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417) >> >> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article =20 >> of Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each =20 >> state, granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the >> =20 >> buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this >> =20 >> is not a personal tax law but a valuation of state-wide land, it =20 >> seems it would not make any difference for this census whether a =20 >> particular person owned versus rented his/her dwelling or =20 >> outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one explanation. >> >> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer =20 >> this question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not >> seen =20= > >> the microfilm for this census, which may provide some clue, and =20 >> I=92ve ordered it through ILL. >> >> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am =20 >> missing. Thanks very much for any help. >> >> Joan Horsley >> >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20 >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:03:34 -0800 > From: Joan Horsley <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census > > Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of > detail availa= > ble in the originals--can't wait to see them.=A0(For anyone else > interested= > , it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel number 1263. Explanation of > what is= > included is at: 1790 Virginia Census VA-NOTES <http:// > www.lva.virginia.gov= > /whatwehave/census/va2_1790census.htm>=A0) > =A0 > I have also wondered if for some=A0who had no "dwelling" but had > "other bui= > ldings"=A0that might mean=A0where they lived was also used as a > store, or a= > craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For example, one > person I iden= > tified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall any mention or indication > of shops = > in the Halifax & Pittsy information? > =A0 > I appreciate your reply.--Joan > > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census > To: [log in to unmask] > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM > > I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties > where th= > ere > is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If I > recall,= > when > contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census > of 1790, = > the > other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up > for many > people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without > any buil= > dings > were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land > lords li= > st. > The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, > roofing etc. W= > hat > distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the tax > man--an > examination of the originals would really help you, I believe--good > luck--M= > ick > Nicholls > On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote: > >> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many > residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the > majority) liste= > d as > having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94 > have one > or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with > neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act > calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so many > people = > had > none. >> =20 >> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An >> act to > ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the > number of > people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from > each > person within [each county precinct] of the number of white persons > in each > family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing > dwelling-houses= > from > other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417) >> =20 >> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of > Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state, > granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the > buildings and > improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a > personal tax > law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make any > difference for this census whether a particular person owned versus > rented > his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one > explanation. >> =20 >> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer this > question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the > microfil= > m for > this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it > through ILL= > . >> =20 >> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am >> missing.=20 > Thanks very much for any help. >> =20 >> Joan Horsley >> =20 >> =20 >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions > at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:33:38 -0700 > From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census > > A word of caution. Only part of the Halfiax list and I think one of > =20 > the Pitt lists have any real detail. The Bates portion of the > Halifax =20= > > list does have barns, sheds, a mill or two and some shops as well > as =20= > > cabins, dairies, smoke, corn, tobo houses etc. Most of the farms/=20 > plantations are not elaborate. Halifax and Pitts are not long > settled =20= > > by the time these lists were taken--Mick > On Dec 4, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Joan Horsley wrote: > >> Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of =20 >> detail available in the originals--can't wait to see them. (For =20 >> anyone else interested, it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel =20 >> number 1263. Explanation of what is included is at: 1790 Virginia =20 >> Census VA-NOTES <http://www.lva.virginia.gov/whatwehave/census/=20 >> va2_1790census.htm> ) >> >> I have also wondered if for some who had no "dwelling" but had =20 >> "other buildings" that might mean where they lived was also used >> as =20= > >> a store, or a craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For =20 >> example, one person I identified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall =20 >> any mention or indication of shops in the Halifax & Pittsy =20 >> information? >> >> I appreciate your reply.--Joan >> >> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> =20 >> wrote: >> >> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM >> >> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties >> =20 >> where there >> is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If >> I =20= > >> recall, when >> contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census =20 >> of 1790, the >> other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up >> =20 >> for many >> people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without >> =20 >> any buildings >> were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land >> =20 >> lords list. >> The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, =20 >> roofing etc. What >> distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the >> tax =20= > >> man--an >> examination of the originals would really help you, I believe-- >> good =20= > >> luck--Mick >> Nicholls >> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote: >> >>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many >> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the =20 >> majority) listed as >> having no "dwelling-house?=94 Most of those with no =93dwelling=94 = > have one >> or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with >> neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act >> calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so >> many =20= > >> people had >> none. >>> >>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from =93An >>> act = > to >> ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the =20 >> number of >> people, within this commonwealth.=94 The law required "a list from = > each >> person within [each county precinct] of the number of white >> persons =20= > >> in each >> family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing =20 >> dwelling-houses from >> other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417) >>> >>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of >> Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state, >> granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the =20 >> buildings and >> improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a =20 >> personal tax >> law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make >> any >> difference for this census whether a particular person owned >> versus =20= > >> rented >> his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one >> explanation. >>> >>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer >>> this >> question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the >> =20 >> microfilm for >> this census, which may provide some clue, and I=92ve ordered it =20 >> through ILL. >>> >>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am >>> missing. >> Thanks very much for any help. >>> >>> Joan Horsley >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20 >>> instructions >> at >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20 >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the =20 >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:40:06 -0500 > From: "Barbara Vines Little, CG" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: 1785 Heads of Households census > > I have published some of the Botetourt county ones in the /Magazine of > Virginia Genealogy/ (Volume 45 (2007), No. 1 & 2 and 46, No. 4 > (currently at the printer)/. /You might want to take a look at these. > > Frances J. Niederer comments on some of these early houses > beginning on > p. 5 of /The Town of Fincastle, Virginia/ (Charlottesville, Va.: > University Press of Virginia, 1965) > > Barbara Vines Little, CG > Dominion Research Services > PO Box 1273 > Orange, VA 22960 > > 540-832-3473 > [log in to unmask] > > CG, Certified Genealogist, is a service mark of the Board for > Certification of Genealogists, used under > license by board certified genealogists after periodic evaluation, > and the board name is registered in the > US Patent & Trademark Office. > > > > Joan Horsley wrote: >> Thanks a lot, Mick. I had no idea there might be that kind of >> detail available in the originals--can't wait to see them. (For >> anyone else interested, it's LVA Miscellaneous Microfilm Reel >> number 1263. Explanation of what is included is at: 1790 Virginia >> Census VA-NOTES <http://www.lva.virginia.gov/whatwehave/census/ >> va2_1790census.htm> ) >> >> I have also wondered if for some who had no "dwelling" but had >> "other buildings" that might mean where they lived was also used >> as a store, or a craftsman's shop, or tavern, or some such. (For >> example, one person I identified was a blacksmith.) Do you recall >> any mention or indication of shops in the Halifax & Pittsy >> information? >> >> I appreciate your reply.--Joan >> >> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> From: Michael Nicholls <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] 1785 Heads of Households census >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:41 PM >> >> I once looked at these lists for Pittsylvania and Halifax Counties >> where there >> is some great detail reported on portions of the county lists. If >> I recall, when >> contrasted to the published volume meant to supplement the census >> of 1790, the >> other buildings would likely have included cabins which do show up >> for many >> people in Halifax who have no dwelling house listed. Those without >> any buildings >> were probably renters whose housing was being reported on the land >> lords list. >> The Halifax list gives some details on construction, siding, >> roofing etc. What >> distinguished a Dwelling houses may have been in the eye of the >> tax man--an >> examination of the originals would really help you, I believe-- >> good luck--Mick >> Nicholls >> On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Joan Horsley wrote: >> >> >>> In the 1785 Heads of Households Census of Virginia, why are so many >>> >> residents in each county (sometimes it appears close to the >> majority) listed as >> having no "dwelling-house?” Most of those with no “dwelling” have one >> or more "other building(s)," but some families are listed with >> neither. I cannot find a definition of "dwelling-house" in the Act >> calling for this census or elsewhere that would explain why so >> many people had >> none. >> >>> The 1785 Virginia heads of household enumeration came from “An >>> act to >>> >> ascertain the quantity of land, the improvements thereon, and the >> number of >> people, within this commonwealth.” The law required "a list from each >> person within [each county precinct] of the number of white >> persons in each >> family therein, and the number of buildings, distinguishing >> dwelling-houses from >> other buildings." (Hening's Statutes at Large, 11:415-417) >> >>> The purpose of the 1784 Act was to comply with the Eighth Article of >>> >> Confederation and establish the "value of all land within each state, >> granted to or surveyed for any person, as such land and the >> buildings and >> improvements thereon shall be estimated." Since this is not a >> personal tax >> law but a valuation of state-wide land, it seems it would not make >> any >> difference for this census whether a particular person owned >> versus rented >> his/her dwelling or outbuilding, as I previously thought might be one >> explanation. >> >>> Several people at LVA have been most helpful in trying to answer >>> this >>> >> question, but so far they are stumped as well. I have not seen the >> microfilm for >> this census, which may provide some clue, and I’ve ordered it >> through ILL. >> >>> In the meantime, I figured someone here might know what I am >>> missing. >>> >> Thanks very much for any help. >> >>> Joan Horsley >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >>> instructions >>> >> at >> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> >> > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > End of VA-HIST Digest - 1 Dec 2008 to 4 Dec 2008 (#2008-119) > ************************************************************ ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html