I think we've all been through this basic discussion before. Please take it
offline and attempt to resolve your differences there.
Ronald L. Whitaker
Athens, OH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anita Wills" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>I don't know where you are going with this post. I responded to a post in
>which the person said, their ancestors fought in the Civil War to free,
>"My" people. I stated that the poster knew I was African American, and I
>did not know what his race was. Now you are sending a post saying that the
>I am focusing on the color of someones skin. In the first place my
>immediate family contains almost every race in this nation. My lines have
>changed races several times since it's inception. I also pointed out that I
>have direct ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, and
>in the Civil War. This was again, in response to the posters message, which
>was directed at me.
>
> So I am puzzled as to your attack on me (UMMM).
>
> Anita
>
>
>
>>From: James Brothers <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 00:12:05 -0400
>>
>>Anita
>>
>>Should the colour of our skin matter when we post on the list? Do I, and
>>everyone else on the list, have to preface everything I write to achieve
>>legitimacy in your eyes with my race and genetic makeup? You have a
>>tendency to go off half cocked and accuse other list members of opinions
>>and statements that the rest of us don't see.
>>
>>For the record, if it matters, my ancestry is (as best we can determine
>>it): English, Irish, Scot, Welsh, French, Norwegian, Ottowa, and Mohawk.
>>One of my direct ancestors, Benjamin Franklin Lee, died from wounds
>>received while a member of the Union Army. He had two brothers, both of
>>whom served as officers in the Union Army. I have had relatives in every
>>war fought in what became the US, often (at least until the Civil War) on
>>both sides.
>>
>>James Brothers, RPA
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sep 3, 2007, at 22:42, Anita Wills wrote:
>>
>>>Well, you have one over me, as you KNOW I am African American, and I
>>>don't know what race you are (UMMM). By the way, my ancestors fought in
>>>the Civil War, the war of 1812, and in the Revolutionary War, so that
>>>your ancestors could be free. So get your facts straight before you
>>>blast off.
>>>
>>>This forum is not about you or me, it is an open forum. I did not aim my
>>>original response to you, but to the list. Sorry you took it personally.
>>>
>>>Anita Wills
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>>>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:21:31 -0400
>>>>
>>>>I would really appreciate it if before you fire off one of your heated
>>>>polemics, if you would do us all a favor and get your facts right.
>>>>First, check the definition of genocide. Yours as posted is just
>>>>wrong.
>>>>
>>>>Your presumptions about who I am and what I believe are so far off the
>>>>mark as to be laughable. For your information, my ancestor died in the
>>>>Civil War so that your ancestors could be free. What, you ask? My
>>>>great, great, great uncle Oliver Browning died at the Battle of
>>>>Shiloh, having enlisted as part of the 25th Wisconsin. This 20 year
>>>>old man never had the opportunity to marry, to have children or to do
>>>>any of the things that people did in their lives, all because he
>>>>believed in a cause greater than himself. Madame, you have absolutely
>>>>no business making presumptions of any sort about me.
>>>>
>>>>Lyle Browning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sep 3, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>Under your concept there should have been no Revolutionary, nor Civil
>>>>>War (where many people died). I guess you would argue that regardless
>>>>>of the inhumanity put on these people, they are always supposed to be
>>>>>laughing happy slaves. By the way, the people who decided what was
>>>>>wrong and right, were changing the rules and laws as they saw fit.
>>>>>Although they put themselves up as Gods, they were just human beings.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anita
>>>>>>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>>>>>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:25:58 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Somewhere along the line I've read that two wrongs don't make a
>>>>>>right. Somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So please let us not trot out these red herrings again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lyle Browning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sep 3, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yet,
>>>>>>>Was it not genocide for Europeans to come into the America and
>>>>>>>murder Indians? Was it not genocide to bring millions of Africans
>>>>>>>(thousands of whom died), into the Americas, and strip them of
>>>>>>>their identies as human beings? If Prosser and Turner knew of
>>>>>>>genocide they learned it at the Masters Feet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anita Wills
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia
>>>>>>>>history <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>>>>>>>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:08:31 -0400
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>From the Associated Press:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Virginia governor 'pardons' slave who led 'Gabriel's Rebellion'
>>>>>>>>>The Associated Press
>>>>>>>>>August 31, 2007
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Where in all this does a comparison of nobility of purpose meet
>>>>>>>>means and methods?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Rebellion to become free will justifiably be seen as serving the
>>>>>>>>nobility of purpose end of the argument. On that, both the Am Rev
>>>>>>>>and Gabriel's Rebellion are equal, albeit at vastly different
>>>>>>>>scales.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At the pointy end of the stick, wherein after the Dec. of Ind.
>>>>>>>>was read, measures of a more physical nature were taken. Knowing
>>>>>>>>full well what would happen once it was read, one can argue that
>>>>>>>>the Am Rev leaders only had to wait for action to develop as the
>>>>>>>>authorities moved to put down the venture. Conflict/Civil War
>>>>>>>>then ensued with the colonials coming out on top.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In contrast, Turner's higher ideal was simply genocide.
>>>>>>>>Indiscriminate killing of men, women and children is murder,
>>>>>>>>however draped in the verbiage of freedom.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What separates the Am Rev and possibly Gabriel, from Turner
>>>>>>>>certainly is the means and methods by which the ideals may be
>>>>>>>>achieved. The Haitian Revolution was at first a bloodbath that
>>>>>>>>has been later sanctified by those at several removes from it
>>>>>>>>into a glorious expression of freedom. That would appear to
>>>>>>>>lessen the value of the lives lost so long as freedom rings. That
>>>>>>>>kind of specious reasoning was also inherent in Stalin, Mao and
>>>>>>>>Pol Pot, to name but a few whose results justified those means.
>>>>>>>>Haitians ended up switching the color of master, but little of
>>>>>>>>substance is now discernible, apart from the historiography of
>>>>>>>>the event.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gabriel's aim, according to Edgerton, was not genocide, but rather
>>>>>>>>a negotiated settlement ending slavery. However, what muddies
>>>>>>>>the waters is the issue of statements made concerning the conduct
>>>>>>>>of the rebellion. Basically, join or die seems to have been the
>>>>>>>>directive, apart from Methodists, Quakers and Frenchmen. Is
>>>>>>>>Edgerton generally viewed as reading the documents correctly or
>>>>>>>>has he ventured rather far out onto the revisionist limb?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For those of you who will undoubtedly jump into the fray, I am
>>>>>>>>well aware that in the Am Rev, there were quasi-
>>>>>>>>institutionalized incidents of brutal behavior on both Colonial
>>>>>>>>and Tory sides, similar probably to the Border Wars in the 1850's
>>>>>>>>onward.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>State to state relations were the ideal and the practice during
>>>>>>>>the Am Rev, not using genocide as a means of igniting conflict.
>>>>>>>>The questions are: Did Gabriel advocate genocide, was he unable
>>>>>>>>to control more volatile elements in his group, was genocidal
>>>>>>>>advocacy legitimately placed at his door?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Lyle Browning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great
>>>>>>>prizes! http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?
>>>>>>>icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>Get the device you want, with the HotmailŪ you love. http://
>>>>>www.windowsmobile.com/hotmailmobile?ocid=MobileHMTagline_1
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
>>>http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?
>>>icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special parenting moments!
> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
|
