Suggestion:
Perhaps we should use personal e-mail and not the va-roots list for
exchanging long, personal correspondence.
Tom Foster
----- Original Message -----
From: "qvarizona" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Virginia Gazette /tact
> Langdon,
>
> One option: Use the same approach I did recently, and write to the
> cousin, something like:
>
> I've been busy and only now have had the opportunity to go over the
> documents you sent "Client". I thought the will transcriptions looked
> familiar, but it wasn't until I read the inserted comments I had included,
> that I realized those were my transcriptions. Possibly, you are unaware
> that transcriptions of wills and other documents are automatically
> accorded copyrights, and while I don't object to your using my
> transcriptions, I must, for professsional reasons, ask that you give
> credit to me anytime you distribute them or any of my research. The
> preferred method of citations on wills and other document transcriptions,
> as recommended by the National Genealogical Society is to insert the
> words, "Transcription by name of transcriber.".
>
> Another option, would be to write "Client", and say something to the
> extent that you just now noticed CT had included some of your research
> without crediting you for the transcriptions, etc. and that perhaps CT is
> not aware that professional courtsy --and copyright laws-- require that
> your work be credited to you when it is copied and distributed.
> Gently --if possible-- let Client know that while the results of your
> research are his to do with as he pleases, your reputation....
>
> Sorry, I'm bogged down here. Need to know just what copyright laws
> protect a professional researcher who is working under a "retainer"
> agreement. Let's see, who on one of the LVA mail lists would know? Maybe
> Paul Drake. Do you want to post a query to [log in to unmask]
> and ask just what general rights a transcriber has, etc. or would you like
> me to?
>
> Joanne
>
>
>
> Langdon Hagen-Long <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Thanks for the response, Joanne. Yes, this is my favorite client of
> all time. I've worked for him for 6 years, producing a report every
> month. In addition to regular dependable income, which is great, he is
> also a very charming, pleasant person to work for. [He would be very
> upset to know that I'm upset, which is one reason I hate to bother him
> with this.] He just received some bad health news, too. He trusts me
> enough to let me just do whatever I feel I need to do. I felt this report
> justified his faith in me. But now it looks less like a "big deal".
>
> Whenever my client gets a report from me, he shares it with others.
> Likewise, if this cousin, or others he is in touch with, find something
> interesting, he sends it to me. This cousin was supposedly exploring the
> South Carolina part of the family, so I thought it was "safe" to work in
> Virginia for awhile, so that we didn't cross paths. Very shortly after I
> sent the client my report, I received via snail-mail, a "report" that
> included my transcribed documents, as well as some other material that I'm
> sure was mine. [I can only prove CT's theft through the 2 sentences of 1
> document.]
>
> I don't think my client realized anything amiss. Yes, and right now he
> probably thinks this woman is as capable as I am. One sentence I added to
> the document connected this document to previous reserarch and the other
> sentence concerned something I needed to verify in the future. Since my
> client had already seen the document in my report, he probably wouldn't
> re-read it in her report. He probably wouldn't notice my sentences. He
> is not "detail-orriented", which is why he hires out the research.
>
> Of course, if she wasn't smart enough to realize that my sentences,
> enclosed in brackets, weren't part of the original document, and wasn't
> smart enough to remove them, she couldn't be smart enough to figure out
> the connections I made which she now claims she already knew.
>
> There is no doubt in my mind that I will see my work - the connections I
> made and analysis, printed word for word in one of her "essays" on the
> family. CT knew enough to add a citation to her report, citing a book of
> abstracts. Maybe I'm just too irate to think straight, but that seems
> just too deliberate. It just can't be an innocent mistake, can it? I've
> tried to think of some way this could have been an innocent mistake, but I
> can't. I've given her the benefit of doubt before, and even tactfully
> asked her to add citations when using published material. Maybe I
> shouldn't worry about being tactful anymore - although I really liked the
> way you handled the other woman today.
>
> Another problem: I suspect my client might be paying her for research
> she isn't really conducting. I know my client is usually paying 2 or 3
> genealogists at a time, for working on different problems. He calls this
> woman a cousin, [maybe 4th or 5th] but she might also be paid for the
> research. I've never felt that was any of my business. But I'd hate to
> think he is paying her for my work. That is the kind of of mess that gives
> all of us, and the profession as a whole, a bad reputation.
>
> Well, maybe you are right. I should just approach the client, explain the
> situation [my "proof"], and ask that he not share my reports until we're
> "done".
> I really appreciate your comments. I would love to know the end result
> of your CT's theft of your grandmother! Did she take your work down?
>
> Thanks again.
> Langdon
>
>
> qvarizona <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Greetings, Langdon,
>
> You may be interested to know that I have not yet heard back from the
> woman who recently contacted me, and on thinking it over, I have wondered
> if she knew who I was when she wrote. The addresses for my webpages all
> include "qvarizona", which is my user name, and most of them also have the
> heading, "Jerry & Joanne's Southern Connection", OR, "Jerry & Joanne's
> Northern Connections. While I was replying to her query, I wondered if
> she --was her name Mabel?-- knew who I was, and deliberately quoted me,
> assuming I'd know and take it as a compliment. Maybe she just forgot to
> use quote marks. It's that sort of question that provides the reason I
> tried to be more tactful than I might be otherwise. Unless I hear back
> from her, I always assume I offended her --with or without good cause.
>
> Before you do anything, you need to decide what outcome you're willing
> to live with? From what you've written, it seems goal #1 is to not offend
> your client, and I assume that means you expect this client wants more
> research done, and that you would like to be the one who does it for him.
> Seem that if the client begins thinking his cousin is as capable as you
> are, then you lose, and it may be you have no choice but to address this
> openly with him.
>
> I need to think about what may or may not work for you in regards to
> your client and "Cousin Thief" (CT), but first, I have questions: How
> did you learn about CT stealing your material and passing it
> off --deliberately-- as her own work? Did the client said something
> like, "Hey, look at this. My cousin came up with the same data you
> did....", or did you find out some other way? Is the client aware you
> know about the duplication of material? This may be an odd question, but
> is the client aware that there is a duplication? Do you insert a
> copyright icon on your work?
>
> Not sure where I'm going with this, or if I can be of any help, but happy
> to try. Even as an amateur, I take my research and the reputation I've
> built over a number of years very seriously. I've had the same sort of
> experiences you mention, mostly with dumb-dumb, wanna-be genealogists, one
> in particular who not only lifted my work using cut/paste then
> published it word for word online, taking credit of course. She was
> actually dumb enough to include this line, ". . .my Virginia grandmother,
> Julia Carruthers Humes...." Needless to say, Julia was MY grandmother,
> and of her four grandchildren, it's only I who am a genealogist. The
> thief actually had the nerve to threated me with a lawsuit when I wrote
> her requesting she remove my material from her website. Ugh! So far,
> I'm just making comments without much thought following one reading of
> your letter. may not be making sense, but perhaps it will give us both
> something to think about.
>
> Joanne
>
> Langdon Hagen-Long <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Joanne,
> I read with amusement your very tactful way of dealing with someone
> taking credit for your work. I wonder if I could trouble you to give me
> some advice. I am a professional genealogist who has worked on a certain
> family for 6 years for one client. I am used to other clients, or usually
> their relatives, not giving me credit. My favorite client of all time has
> shared my work with "cousins" on the net. I've seen my work show up in
> "essays by" one of these cousins regularly. I'm pretty tolerant of that.
> But the latest insult is too much! This cousin sent my client a report,
> using my research, and attributed "her" research to a published book. The
> book is a collection of abtracts. The report she sent my client contained
> complete transcriptions - by me. I transcribed from the microfilm of the
> originals, but added too sentences in brackets commenting on two things
> within the document. This cousin wasn't even smart enough to remove my
> sentences, but gave credit to herself and a
> book of abstracts.
>
> I understand and cooperate with my client's desire to share his work, on
> his theory that 50 heads are better than one. But this is too much. It
> seems to me to be a very deliberate theft of my work, re-typed my work
> from an snail-mail report just days after he sent her a copy. She
> immediately mailed it back to my client as her research, including a few
> items that I'm now sure also came from my work..
>
> I've thought about this for weeks now, and I just don't know how to
> respond. Should I confront her directly? I'm usually pretty direct, but
> I'm afraid that might offend my favorite client. I've thought of
> informing my client first, but that seems a bit mean to the cousin-thief.
> I'm afraid my client won't understand the importance of this and will
> think I am being petty. He is not a researcher himself, but prefers to
> pay others, so he might not understand. I've been too angry to trust
> myself to respond in a logical way. I'm not sure I'm in the mood to be
> tactful!
>
> Would you mind taking a few minutes and giving me some advice about how I
> might respond? I'd be ever so grateful. I'm in Virginia Beach, but go to
> the archives in Richmond, Raleigh, and Columbia on a regular basis, as
> well as Charleston, SC. I'd be glad to make copies or do research in
> return. [I also "translate" old legal documents].
>
> If you are too busy right now, I understand, but would like you to know
> how impressed I was with your tact and kindness.
>
> Thanks
>
> Langdon Hagen-Long
>
>
>
>
>
>
> qvarizona <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Here's link to John D. Rockefeller Jr. Library
> http://research.history.org/JDRLibrary.cfm
> .....
> By the way, when I read your query, the wording sounded familiar, and it
> took me minute to realize you used a direct quote from my own Gilmore
> genealogy report that is online. I'm glad someone read it, but I would
> have preferred knowing who wrote it without having to puzzle out why it
> sounded so familiar; senior moments, you know.
>
> For info re. Thomas Rowland, his rifle and referral to George Washington,
> see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eqvarizona/rowlandrifle.html
>
> More questions about Rowland or Gilmore's? Write direct and I'll try and
> answer.
> Joanne
>
>
>
>
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