Suggestion: Perhaps we should use personal e-mail and not the va-roots list for exchanging long, personal correspondence. Tom Foster ----- Original Message ----- From: "qvarizona" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Virginia Gazette /tact > Langdon, > > One option: Use the same approach I did recently, and write to the > cousin, something like: > > I've been busy and only now have had the opportunity to go over the > documents you sent "Client". I thought the will transcriptions looked > familiar, but it wasn't until I read the inserted comments I had included, > that I realized those were my transcriptions. Possibly, you are unaware > that transcriptions of wills and other documents are automatically > accorded copyrights, and while I don't object to your using my > transcriptions, I must, for professsional reasons, ask that you give > credit to me anytime you distribute them or any of my research. The > preferred method of citations on wills and other document transcriptions, > as recommended by the National Genealogical Society is to insert the > words, "Transcription by name of transcriber.". > > Another option, would be to write "Client", and say something to the > extent that you just now noticed CT had included some of your research > without crediting you for the transcriptions, etc. and that perhaps CT is > not aware that professional courtsy --and copyright laws-- require that > your work be credited to you when it is copied and distributed. > Gently --if possible-- let Client know that while the results of your > research are his to do with as he pleases, your reputation.... > > Sorry, I'm bogged down here. Need to know just what copyright laws > protect a professional researcher who is working under a "retainer" > agreement. Let's see, who on one of the LVA mail lists would know? Maybe > Paul Drake. Do you want to post a query to [log in to unmask] > and ask just what general rights a transcriber has, etc. or would you like > me to? > > Joanne > > > > Langdon Hagen-Long <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thanks for the response, Joanne. Yes, this is my favorite client of > all time. I've worked for him for 6 years, producing a report every > month. In addition to regular dependable income, which is great, he is > also a very charming, pleasant person to work for. [He would be very > upset to know that I'm upset, which is one reason I hate to bother him > with this.] He just received some bad health news, too. He trusts me > enough to let me just do whatever I feel I need to do. I felt this report > justified his faith in me. But now it looks less like a "big deal". > > Whenever my client gets a report from me, he shares it with others. > Likewise, if this cousin, or others he is in touch with, find something > interesting, he sends it to me. This cousin was supposedly exploring the > South Carolina part of the family, so I thought it was "safe" to work in > Virginia for awhile, so that we didn't cross paths. Very shortly after I > sent the client my report, I received via snail-mail, a "report" that > included my transcribed documents, as well as some other material that I'm > sure was mine. [I can only prove CT's theft through the 2 sentences of 1 > document.] > > I don't think my client realized anything amiss. Yes, and right now he > probably thinks this woman is as capable as I am. One sentence I added to > the document connected this document to previous reserarch and the other > sentence concerned something I needed to verify in the future. Since my > client had already seen the document in my report, he probably wouldn't > re-read it in her report. He probably wouldn't notice my sentences. He > is not "detail-orriented", which is why he hires out the research. > > Of course, if she wasn't smart enough to realize that my sentences, > enclosed in brackets, weren't part of the original document, and wasn't > smart enough to remove them, she couldn't be smart enough to figure out > the connections I made which she now claims she already knew. > > There is no doubt in my mind that I will see my work - the connections I > made and analysis, printed word for word in one of her "essays" on the > family. CT knew enough to add a citation to her report, citing a book of > abstracts. Maybe I'm just too irate to think straight, but that seems > just too deliberate. It just can't be an innocent mistake, can it? I've > tried to think of some way this could have been an innocent mistake, but I > can't. I've given her the benefit of doubt before, and even tactfully > asked her to add citations when using published material. Maybe I > shouldn't worry about being tactful anymore - although I really liked the > way you handled the other woman today. > > Another problem: I suspect my client might be paying her for research > she isn't really conducting. I know my client is usually paying 2 or 3 > genealogists at a time, for working on different problems. He calls this > woman a cousin, [maybe 4th or 5th] but she might also be paid for the > research. I've never felt that was any of my business. But I'd hate to > think he is paying her for my work. That is the kind of of mess that gives > all of us, and the profession as a whole, a bad reputation. > > Well, maybe you are right. I should just approach the client, explain the > situation [my "proof"], and ask that he not share my reports until we're > "done". > I really appreciate your comments. I would love to know the end result > of your CT's theft of your grandmother! Did she take your work down? > > Thanks again. > Langdon > > > qvarizona <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Greetings, Langdon, > > You may be interested to know that I have not yet heard back from the > woman who recently contacted me, and on thinking it over, I have wondered > if she knew who I was when she wrote. The addresses for my webpages all > include "qvarizona", which is my user name, and most of them also have the > heading, "Jerry & Joanne's Southern Connection", OR, "Jerry & Joanne's > Northern Connections. While I was replying to her query, I wondered if > she --was her name Mabel?-- knew who I was, and deliberately quoted me, > assuming I'd know and take it as a compliment. Maybe she just forgot to > use quote marks. It's that sort of question that provides the reason I > tried to be more tactful than I might be otherwise. Unless I hear back > from her, I always assume I offended her --with or without good cause. > > Before you do anything, you need to decide what outcome you're willing > to live with? From what you've written, it seems goal #1 is to not offend > your client, and I assume that means you expect this client wants more > research done, and that you would like to be the one who does it for him. > Seem that if the client begins thinking his cousin is as capable as you > are, then you lose, and it may be you have no choice but to address this > openly with him. > > I need to think about what may or may not work for you in regards to > your client and "Cousin Thief" (CT), but first, I have questions: How > did you learn about CT stealing your material and passing it > off --deliberately-- as her own work? Did the client said something > like, "Hey, look at this. My cousin came up with the same data you > did....", or did you find out some other way? Is the client aware you > know about the duplication of material? This may be an odd question, but > is the client aware that there is a duplication? Do you insert a > copyright icon on your work? > > Not sure where I'm going with this, or if I can be of any help, but happy > to try. Even as an amateur, I take my research and the reputation I've > built over a number of years very seriously. I've had the same sort of > experiences you mention, mostly with dumb-dumb, wanna-be genealogists, one > in particular who not only lifted my work using cut/paste then > published it word for word online, taking credit of course. She was > actually dumb enough to include this line, ". . .my Virginia grandmother, > Julia Carruthers Humes...." Needless to say, Julia was MY grandmother, > and of her four grandchildren, it's only I who am a genealogist. The > thief actually had the nerve to threated me with a lawsuit when I wrote > her requesting she remove my material from her website. Ugh! So far, > I'm just making comments without much thought following one reading of > your letter. may not be making sense, but perhaps it will give us both > something to think about. > > Joanne > > Langdon Hagen-Long <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Joanne, > I read with amusement your very tactful way of dealing with someone > taking credit for your work. I wonder if I could trouble you to give me > some advice. I am a professional genealogist who has worked on a certain > family for 6 years for one client. I am used to other clients, or usually > their relatives, not giving me credit. My favorite client of all time has > shared my work with "cousins" on the net. I've seen my work show up in > "essays by" one of these cousins regularly. I'm pretty tolerant of that. > But the latest insult is too much! This cousin sent my client a report, > using my research, and attributed "her" research to a published book. The > book is a collection of abtracts. The report she sent my client contained > complete transcriptions - by me. I transcribed from the microfilm of the > originals, but added too sentences in brackets commenting on two things > within the document. This cousin wasn't even smart enough to remove my > sentences, but gave credit to herself and a > book of abstracts. > > I understand and cooperate with my client's desire to share his work, on > his theory that 50 heads are better than one. But this is too much. It > seems to me to be a very deliberate theft of my work, re-typed my work > from an snail-mail report just days after he sent her a copy. She > immediately mailed it back to my client as her research, including a few > items that I'm now sure also came from my work.. > > I've thought about this for weeks now, and I just don't know how to > respond. Should I confront her directly? I'm usually pretty direct, but > I'm afraid that might offend my favorite client. I've thought of > informing my client first, but that seems a bit mean to the cousin-thief. > I'm afraid my client won't understand the importance of this and will > think I am being petty. He is not a researcher himself, but prefers to > pay others, so he might not understand. I've been too angry to trust > myself to respond in a logical way. I'm not sure I'm in the mood to be > tactful! > > Would you mind taking a few minutes and giving me some advice about how I > might respond? I'd be ever so grateful. I'm in Virginia Beach, but go to > the archives in Richmond, Raleigh, and Columbia on a regular basis, as > well as Charleston, SC. I'd be glad to make copies or do research in > return. [I also "translate" old legal documents]. > > If you are too busy right now, I understand, but would like you to know > how impressed I was with your tact and kindness. > > Thanks > > Langdon Hagen-Long > > > > > > > qvarizona <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Here's link to John D. Rockefeller Jr. Library > http://research.history.org/JDRLibrary.cfm > ..... > By the way, when I read your query, the wording sounded familiar, and it > took me minute to realize you used a direct quote from my own Gilmore > genealogy report that is online. I'm glad someone read it, but I would > have preferred knowing who wrote it without having to puzzle out why it > sounded so familiar; senior moments, you know. > > For info re. Thomas Rowland, his rifle and referral to George Washington, > see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Eqvarizona/rowlandrifle.html > > More questions about Rowland or Gilmore's? Write direct and I'll try and > answer. > Joanne > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Personals > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. > See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Shopping > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 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