Well, you have one over me, as you KNOW I am African American, and I don't 
know what race you are (UMMM). By the way, my ancestors fought in the Civil 
War, the war of 1812, and in the Revolutionary War, so that your ancestors 
could be free. So get your facts straight before you blast off.

This forum is not about you or me, it is an open forum. I did not aim my 
original response to you, but to the list. Sorry you took it personally.

Anita Wills


>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history         
>      <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:21:31 -0400
>
>I would really appreciate it if before you fire off one of your  heated 
>polemics, if you would do us all a favor and get your facts  right. First, 
>check the definition of genocide. Yours as posted is  just wrong.
>
>Your presumptions about who I am and what I believe are so far off  the 
>mark as to be laughable. For your information, my ancestor died  in the 
>Civil War so that your ancestors could be free. What, you ask?  My great, 
>great, great uncle Oliver Browning died at the Battle of  Shiloh, having 
>enlisted as part of the 25th Wisconsin. This 20 year  old man never had the 
>opportunity to marry, to have children or to do  any of the things that 
>people did in their lives, all because he  believed in a cause greater than 
>himself. Madame, you have absolutely  no business making presumptions of 
>any sort about me.
>
>Lyle Browning
>
>
>On Sep 3, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>Under your concept there should have been no Revolutionary, nor  Civil War 
>>(where many people died). I guess you would argue that  regardless of the 
>>inhumanity put on these people, they are always  supposed to be laughing 
>>happy slaves. By the way, the people who  decided what was wrong and 
>>right, were changing the rules and laws  as they saw fit.  Although they 
>>put themselves up as Gods, they  were just human beings.
>>
>>Anita
>>>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia  history      
>>>         <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:25:58 -0400
>>>
>>>Somewhere along the line I've read that two wrongs don't make a   right. 
>>>Somewhere.
>>>
>>>So please let us not trot out these red herrings again.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Lyle Browning
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sep 3, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yet,
>>>>Was it not genocide for Europeans to come into the America and   murder 
>>>>Indians? Was it not genocide to bring millions of  Africans  (thousands 
>>>>of whom died), into the Americas, and strip  them of  their identies as 
>>>>human beings? If Prosser and Turner  knew of  genocide they learned it 
>>>>at the Masters Feet.
>>>>
>>>>Anita Wills
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia   history   
>>>>>            <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>Subject: Re: Gov. Kaine Pardons Gabriel Prosser
>>>>>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:08:31 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>>From the Associated Press:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Virginia governor 'pardons' slave who led 'Gabriel's Rebellion'
>>>>>>The Associated Press
>>>>>>August 31, 2007
>>>>>
>>>>>Where in all this does a comparison of nobility of purpose meet   means 
>>>>>  and methods?
>>>>>
>>>>>Rebellion to become free will justifiably be seen as serving  the   
>>>>>nobility of purpose end of the argument. On that, both the  Am Rev  and 
>>>>>  Gabriel's Rebellion are equal, albeit at vastly  different  scales.
>>>>>
>>>>>At the pointy end of the stick, wherein after the Dec. of Ind.   was  
>>>>>read, measures of a more physical nature were taken.  Knowing  full  
>>>>>well what would happen once it was read, one can  argue that  the Am  
>>>>>Rev leaders only had to wait for action to  develop as the  authorities 
>>>>>  moved to put down the venture.  Conflict/Civil War  then ensued with  
>>>>>the colonials coming out  on top.
>>>>>
>>>>>In contrast, Turner's higher ideal was simply genocide.    
>>>>>Indiscriminate killing of men, women and children is murder,   however  
>>>>>draped in the verbiage of freedom.
>>>>>
>>>>>What separates the Am Rev and possibly Gabriel, from Turner   certainly 
>>>>>  is the means and methods by which the ideals may be   achieved. The  
>>>>>Haitian Revolution was at first a bloodbath that   has been later  
>>>>>sanctified by those at several removes from it   into a glorious  
>>>>>expression of freedom. That would appear to   lessen the value of the  
>>>>>lives lost so long as freedom rings.  That  kind of specious reasoning  
>>>>>was also inherent in Stalin,  Mao and  Pol Pot, to name but a few whose 
>>>>>  results justified  those means.  Haitians ended up switching the 
>>>>>color  of master,  but little of  substance is now discernible, apart 
>>>>>from the   historiography of  the event.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gabriel's aim, according to Edgerton, was not genocide, but  rather  a  
>>>>>negotiated settlement ending slavery. However, what  muddies  the  
>>>>>waters is the issue of statements made concerning  the conduct  of the  
>>>>>rebellion. Basically, join or die seems to  have been the  directive,  
>>>>>apart from Methodists, Quakers and  Frenchmen. Is  Edgerton generally  
>>>>>viewed as reading the  documents correctly or  has he ventured rather  
>>>>>far out onto the  revisionist limb?
>>>>>
>>>>>For those of you who will undoubtedly jump into the fray, I am   well  
>>>>>aware that in the Am Rev, there were quasi-  institutionalized  
>>>>>incidents of brutal behavior on both  Colonial  and Tory sides, similar 
>>>>>  probably to the Border Wars  in the 1850's  onward.
>>>>>
>>>>>State to state relations were the ideal and the practice during   the  
>>>>>Am Rev, not using genocide as a means of igniting  conflict.  The  
>>>>>questions are: Did Gabriel advocate genocide,  was he unable  to  
>>>>>control more volatile elements in his group,  was genocidal  advocacy  
>>>>>legitimately placed at his door?
>>>>>
>>>>>Lyle Browning
>>>>
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