I suspect plenty of widowers do it, even today [live celibate lives].  
People can and do "turn it off" when times require. But in TJs case,  
we'll never know. I do want to throw another log on the fire here and  
ask what any of you think about his depiction in "Dominion of  
Memories", by Susan Dunn. It's an interesting book, on some levels I  
find it annoyingly on the mark, many of the attitudes she describes  
still exist here in Va, and can make you want to tear your hair out  
in frustration. But it also seems she takes an excessively negative  
view, or paints with too broad a brush. Perhaps the fact that Va [and  
the Carolinas] endured 3 wars in 90 years also had something to do  
with their "backwardness."

But I find her depiction of TJ surprising, having grown up with him  
shown on a pedestal all my life. He seems to have had his "moments in  
the sun" where he did great things, mainly in areas where his  
intellect could shine. Those thought processes seemed to have been  
very idealistic, which was what we needed during the Revolutionary  
period. But then he retired to Monticello and lived in splendid  
isolation, handing down his idealism in the form of stultifying  
edicts about the good old days and staying true to one's agrarian  
roots. If true, he did his state a great disservice and was really in  
no position to be directing the course Virginia was taking, with all  
his theories that were growth- damaging, not growth-enhancing. If he  
truly did see himself as the Sage of Monticello, trying to direct the  
course of his state as he once directed the course of the new nation,  
let's face it, he might have seen himself on a different plane than  
as a sexually frustrated plantation owner sleeping with a slave  
woman. It seems to me his ideals and thoughts in his retirement  
became, as so often happens with the older folks, more and more  
inward looking and conservative. A weed to entangle the only  
political dominion he had left, Virginia, and not the flowering of  
liberty it once was. From Ms. Dunn's depiction it makes me wonder if  
his conservative elder self had been plopped down in 1770s  
Philadelphia, what position he would have taken-- Patriot or Tory?  
But it seems to me his character was one rooted in idealism and the  
intellect; all his tinkering and planting at Monticello was because  
his inquiring intellect wanted to Know Things. Satisfying that  
intellectual craving seemed to be a big motivator in his life [which  
brings up the side question of how big a motivator physical needs  
were in the man-- sex, fine foods, excellent wines]. But as he was  
more isolated from the busy-ness of the world, his ideals took on an  
increasingly impractical tone. One must also then ask, as a legend in  
his own mind, if he would have slept with a "mere slave", and if his  
passion for Mrs. Cosway was in large part an idealism, the "perfect  
love", etc.

Jes' askin'

Nancy

-------
I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.

--Daniel Boone



On May 5, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Stephan A. Schwartz wrote:

> I think Nancy is correct.  There is not a scintilla of evidence  
> that Jefferson  was asexual. It is undeniable that Martha and  
> Thomas Jefferson had an active and apparently satisfying sex life,  
> and his attraction to Maria Cosway tells us he was not of a  
> celibate inclination.   Are we to assume then that for the  
> remaining two-thirds of his life he was a chronic masturbator? Ask  
> yourself, are you prepared to live for half a century without a  
> sexual relationship, or without lying in bed cuddling the man or  
> woman you are sleeping with? If the answer is yes, you should  
> consider life in the Roman clergy. It's better than tenure.
>
> -- Stephan
>
>
> On 4 May 2008, at 22:17, Anne Pemberton wrote:
>
>> Nancy,
>>
>> I fail to see how noting that he was a sexual person is "trashing  
>> him".
>>
>> As a widower, we would expect a healthy male to make some  
>> provisions for sexual outlets. There were all sorts of taboos back  
>> then for "taking matters in hand". NOT providing such an outlet  
>> could have made TJ a rather dour man who was not capable of the  
>> leadership that he exhibited.
>>
>>
>
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