My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving Indians? 
No one seems to want to answer that.

Anita
>From: macbd1 <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history         
>      <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.)
>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:06:13 -0500
>
>Let's not be so kind.
>
>While European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas
>(that included Virginia) lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab
>involvement in slave trade lasted *fourteen* centuries, and in some parts 
>of
>the Muslim world is still continuing to this day.  Over 28 Million Africans
>have been enslaved in the Muslim world during this time, with some 
>estimates
>being 'much' higher.  A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the 
>American
>slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.
>
>While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men,
>the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for 
>every
>man were enslaved by the Muslims.
>
>While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic
>was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the
>Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!
>
>While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for
>agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East
>were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military
>service.
>
>While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of
>their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few
>descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.  (Maybe
>they were just "incorporated into society," huh??)
>
>While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families,
>most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and
>most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.
>
>Of the estimated 11 million Africans transported across the Atlantic (the
>actual number is debatable), approximately 95% went to South and Central
>America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions.
>'Only' 4-5% of the total were transported to what was to become
>The United States. (It seems terrible to discuss slavery in statistical 
>terms.)
>
>While Christian Reformers spearheaded the antislavery abolitionist 
>movements
>in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilized her Navy,
>throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set
>captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the
>Muslim world.
>
>Even after Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and Europe abolished 
>the
>slave trade in 1815, Muslim slave traders enslaved a further 2 million
>Africans. This despite vigorous British Naval activity and military
>intervention to limit the Muslim slave trade.
>
>By some calculations the number of victims of the 14 centuries of Muslim
>slave trade could exceed 180 million. Nearly 100 years after President
>Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in America, and 130
>years after all slaves within the British Empire were set free by
>parliamentary decree, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, in 1962, and Mauritania in
>1980, begrudgingly removed legalized slavery from their statute books.
>
>And this only after international pressure was brought to bear. Today
>numerous international organizations (and news media) document that slavery
>in its worst terms still continues in some Muslim countries -- like Darfur,
>Sudan, Somalia, Mauritania and Chad among others.
>
>Much of the above statistical data from Assyrian International News 
>Agency's
>study of many sources, some of which are available online.
>http://www.aina.org/
>
>My feelings about slavery was posted 3/2/07 during a prior thread 
>concerning
>WPA Slave Narratives, see copy far below.  With such strongly felt emotions
>against slavery then and now, by many (including Southerners), wouldn't
>Virginian historians and members at this list be better served to take
>positive action against slavery yet existing in today's Muslim world than
>trying to squeeze more and more out of apologies by today's society, 
>whether
>or not their ancestors were slave owners?  Emotions by common citizens of
>our Southen States during the sorry times of our nation's Civil War 
>involved
>more than slavery.  It seems, for some, that 'something' will always be
>lacking from today's apologies, including that of Virginia's
>legislature....it's never quite enough....
>
>With history discussions at this list repeating 'identical' topics and 
>commentary
>about slavery, WPA slave narratives, etc quite often, a young visitor might
>wonder whether anything else happened in Virginia's past.
>
>Neil McDonald
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Heinegg" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance,
>etc.)
>
>
>>If you read Lovejoy or other works that discuss the Islamic trade in
>>slaves
>>from Africa to the Middle East, you may be--as I was--amazed to learn the
>>huge numbers
>>that were involved.
>>-------------
>>Segal estimates it to be about the same as the Atlantic trade, but it took
>>place over eight centuries+.
>>
>>Many of the men were eunuchs. It is estimated that 1 in 200 potential
>>eunuchs made it alive to their destinations. Those that survived were
>>greatly revered in Muslim society, some becoming generals, heads of state,
>>etc. In the early 20th century when eunuchs entered the tramcars in
>>Istanbul, all Turks would stand and greet them, and remain standing until
>>they took their seat.
>>
>>The survival rate from walking 2,500 miles across the Sahara from West
>>Africa to Egypt or Northern Africa was, as you might imagine, much worse
>>than the survival rate in the Atlantic trade on ships.
>>
>>Under pressure from the British the Turks closed the slave market in
>>Istanbul in 1846, but in 1855 "the head of the Muslim community in Mecca
>>issued a fatwa declaring that the ban was a breach of Islamic holy law and
>>that the Turks were apostates and heathens upon whom it was obligatory to
>>wage holy war." Slavery was still legal in Saudi in the 1950s and
>>continued
>>to some extent into the 1980s. It was replaced by hiring Filipino and
>>Indian
>>"house maids." When I worked in Saudi, I used to hear my Saudi work mates
>>joking about taking advantage of their maids.
>>
>>I think the South has the same problem as the Saudis. Emancipation was
>>enforced. The recent state legislature apologies to African Americans for
>>the damage slavery did to the African American community both before and
>>after slavery is a great stride toward ridding the soul of those past
>>actions. The only thing that is lacking in the apologies is the
>>acknowledgement of how wrong it was for their white ancestors in the 1860s
>>to still be fighting to maintain slavery. One wonders when they would have
>>agreed to emancipation if left to their own devices.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "macbd1" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Slave Narrative for WPA Project
>
>
>>How can we allow, let alone participate in, such a bland discussion about
>>basic human rights, where some even believe, or rather 'say,' that slaves
>>were apparently happy with their plight.  Human slavery and traumatic
>>family upheaval and transportation, is/was such an abomination, so
>>demeaning, so  basically inhuman, so cruel, so wrong, so unacceptable.
>>Freedom with liberty for all is man's ultimate way (it's sad that I feel 
>>inclined
>>to add for this forum, meaning all of humankind.)  Read the words and 
>>minds
>>of those who violently rebelled, those who ran away, those who had the 
>>will
>>and found the means for obtaining freedom or death, those who sacrificed
>>so much in so many ways, to truly understand.  Do the same for the many
>>individuals who helped the rebels and runaways.  Think about words of the
>>old hymn, 'Free at Last,' and interpretations of many other 'old Negro
>>spirituals' (historical context) of the early/mid 19th century.  Read 
>>other
>>sources, many on-line, for personal letters by slaves and ex-slaves.  Look
>>inside yourself and extrapolate the dots.
>>
>>Should we expect ex-slaves to have exclaimed:  I believe it is
>>self-evident, that all men are created equal, that we are endowed, by our
>>Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, 
>>Liberty,
>>and the pursuit of Happiness -- and, by God, never forget as to prevent
>>slavery's recurrence or appearance elsewhere!
>>
>>Some conclusions simply don't require much discussion, IMHO.
>>
>>Neil McDonald
>>
>>An old Scotch-Irishman
>>having early/mid-19th century ancestors
>>just above Ripley, Ohio.

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