Edward,
I appreciate this, and will see if I can run the book down. Do you know if 
it is for sale, or should I try my local library?

Anita


>From: "EDWARD.BOND" <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history         
>      <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.)
>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:40:45 -0500
>
>It has been years since I read the book, but Patricia Seed's
>Ceremonies of Possession may discuss how the Spanish used
>Islamic models to justify their treatment of natives in South
>America.
>
>Ed Bond
>
> >
> > It is interesting that you now lay the association of Islam
> > with slavery in
> > my lap. I did not make that association, which is why I posed
> > the question.
> > We are supposed to be discussing Virginia history in general
> > and American
> > history in particular. I was simply attempting to bring the
> > discussion back
> > to Virginia History. BTW I was not posing the question to anyway in
> > particular, so please do not take offense.
> >
> > However, thank you for at least attempting to answer the question.
> >
> > Anita
> >
> >
> > >From: David Kiracofe <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> > >      <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.)
> > >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:21:55 -0400
> > >
> > >I'm a bit put off with your association of Islam, which is a cultural
> > >and religious system, with the institution of slavery as practiced in
> > >its various locales.   Yes, Islamic law validated the holding of 
>slaves,
> > >but so did Christianity and numerous other faiths.  But surely the
> > >association of the buying and selling of people should be with the
> > >people who did the buying and selling and not their presumed belief
> > >systems.  Neither the African Muslim seller (and not all sellers were 
>in
> > >fact Muslims) nor the European Christian buyers were behaviing in ways
> > >that one would call specifically religious, rather they were engaged in
> > >a very secular economic activity.
> > >
> > >To get to your question though (I wouldn't want to be accused of 
>evading
> > >it), Europeans began associating Africans with exploitable labor well
> > >before Columbus.   The Portuguese who acquired the first African slaves
> > >(around 1440) did so from Muslim merchants in West Africa.  The
> > >degradation of people who were so different from themselves validated
> > >Europeans' sense of occupying a higher place in the hierarchy of 
>nature.
> > >   Europeans were quick to exploit Native workers in the Americas as
> > >well.  When desease and other problems with Native workers created
> > >shortages, the contacts with those West African merchants were already
> > >in place and ready to fill the need.   Muslim merchants didn't create
> > >this worldview, their role was simply to make it concrete for 
>Europeans.
> > >
> > >To jump ahead to Virginia, we can see that the English came to the new
> > >world with pre-existing social notions about the nature of the universe
> > >-- in which some were of higher order than others -- and economic ideas
> > >about the exploitation of the labor of lower orders, including both
> > >Native Americans and Africans as well as other Europeans.   If Native
> > >American people resisted coerced labor, those who were prepared to be
> > >dominant were ready to turn to other "lower" people.   In Virginia that
> > >meant principally the lower orders of English society and so there was
> > >the massive migration of lower class servants.
> > >
> > >One result of bringing over people from the English-speaking world was
> > >that the society of early Virginia was very fluid: one could serve 
>one's
> > >time and then acquire freedom, and possibly land and status, and so 
>move
> > >up from the lower ranks.  As the colonial society matured, however,
> > >there was a desire to make a more fixed, less fluid, society (more like
> > >that of England where rank was very clearly delineated) and so there 
>was
> > >a need to settle on a labor system where labor was unable to achieve
> > >freedom and its material and social benefits.  Therefore we see the
> > >movement toward slavery and particularly African slavery.   It wasn't
> > >all about race and yet race was so central to the practice of it as to
> > >make the distinction all but irrelevant.
> > >
> > >I know this is a very truncated history of the beginnings of slavery in
> > >Virginia, leaving out the perhaps anomalous experience of the first
> > >Africans brought to Jamestown, and further skipping past the
> > >developments in Virginia law pertaining to labor and race, but I will
> > >leave it there and if anyone wants to add, subtract or even just
> > >quibble, well, that's what we're all here for.
> > >
> > >David Kiracofe
> > >
> > >
> > >David Kiracofe
> > >History
> > >Tidewater Community College
> > >Chesapeake Campus
> > >1428 Cedar Road
> > >Chesapeake, Virginia 23322
> > >757-822-5136
> > > >>> Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> 06/14/07 12:53 PM >>>
> > >My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving
> > >Indians?
> > >No one seems to want to answer that.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer -
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> > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
> >

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