Edward, I appreciate this, and will see if I can run the book down. Do you know if it is for sale, or should I try my local library? Anita >From: "EDWARD.BOND" <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.) >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:40:45 -0500 > >It has been years since I read the book, but Patricia Seed's >Ceremonies of Possession may discuss how the Spanish used >Islamic models to justify their treatment of natives in South >America. > >Ed Bond > > > > > It is interesting that you now lay the association of Islam > > with slavery in > > my lap. I did not make that association, which is why I posed > > the question. > > We are supposed to be discussing Virginia history in general > > and American > > history in particular. I was simply attempting to bring the > > discussion back > > to Virginia History. BTW I was not posing the question to anyway in > > particular, so please do not take offense. > > > > However, thank you for at least attempting to answer the question. > > > > Anita > > > > > > >From: David Kiracofe <[log in to unmask]> > > >Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > > > <[log in to unmask]> > > >To: [log in to unmask] > > >Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.) > > >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:21:55 -0400 > > > > > >I'm a bit put off with your association of Islam, which is a cultural > > >and religious system, with the institution of slavery as practiced in > > >its various locales. Yes, Islamic law validated the holding of >slaves, > > >but so did Christianity and numerous other faiths. But surely the > > >association of the buying and selling of people should be with the > > >people who did the buying and selling and not their presumed belief > > >systems. Neither the African Muslim seller (and not all sellers were >in > > >fact Muslims) nor the European Christian buyers were behaviing in ways > > >that one would call specifically religious, rather they were engaged in > > >a very secular economic activity. > > > > > >To get to your question though (I wouldn't want to be accused of >evading > > >it), Europeans began associating Africans with exploitable labor well > > >before Columbus. The Portuguese who acquired the first African slaves > > >(around 1440) did so from Muslim merchants in West Africa. The > > >degradation of people who were so different from themselves validated > > >Europeans' sense of occupying a higher place in the hierarchy of >nature. > > > Europeans were quick to exploit Native workers in the Americas as > > >well. When desease and other problems with Native workers created > > >shortages, the contacts with those West African merchants were already > > >in place and ready to fill the need. Muslim merchants didn't create > > >this worldview, their role was simply to make it concrete for >Europeans. > > > > > >To jump ahead to Virginia, we can see that the English came to the new > > >world with pre-existing social notions about the nature of the universe > > >-- in which some were of higher order than others -- and economic ideas > > >about the exploitation of the labor of lower orders, including both > > >Native Americans and Africans as well as other Europeans. If Native > > >American people resisted coerced labor, those who were prepared to be > > >dominant were ready to turn to other "lower" people. In Virginia that > > >meant principally the lower orders of English society and so there was > > >the massive migration of lower class servants. > > > > > >One result of bringing over people from the English-speaking world was > > >that the society of early Virginia was very fluid: one could serve >one's > > >time and then acquire freedom, and possibly land and status, and so >move > > >up from the lower ranks. As the colonial society matured, however, > > >there was a desire to make a more fixed, less fluid, society (more like > > >that of England where rank was very clearly delineated) and so there >was > > >a need to settle on a labor system where labor was unable to achieve > > >freedom and its material and social benefits. Therefore we see the > > >movement toward slavery and particularly African slavery. It wasn't > > >all about race and yet race was so central to the practice of it as to > > >make the distinction all but irrelevant. > > > > > >I know this is a very truncated history of the beginnings of slavery in > > >Virginia, leaving out the perhaps anomalous experience of the first > > >Africans brought to Jamestown, and further skipping past the > > >developments in Virginia law pertaining to labor and race, but I will > > >leave it there and if anyone wants to add, subtract or even just > > >quibble, well, that's what we're all here for. > > > > > >David Kiracofe > > > > > > > > >David Kiracofe > > >History > > >Tidewater Community College > > >Chesapeake Campus > > >1428 Cedar Road > > >Chesapeake, Virginia 23322 > > >757-822-5136 > > > >>> Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> 06/14/07 12:53 PM >>> > > >My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving > > >Indians? > > >No one seems to want to answer that. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - > > only on MSN > > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? 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