Well, I guess the answer is the Europeans came to save Indians from 
themselves. Lucky Us.

Anita


>From: qvarizona <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history         
>      <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Slavery and Unanswered Questions
>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:44:31 -0700
>
>Anita,
>
>Your question regarding Europeans enslaving Indians reminds me that I, too, 
>have an unanswered questions from a posting I made earlier this year.
>
>Date:     Fri, 11 May 2007 07:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
>From:    "qvarizona" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject  :Re: Official Opposition Events against Jamestown 2007
>
>Just curious.  How is it possible that of those protesting the celebration 
>of Jamestown can completely ignore what went on in this area  before the 
>Europeans arrived?   Are they unaware of Wahunsonacock and his conquests?  
>Have they not read of the raids conducted by the Monacans and Mannahoacs on 
>their enemies, the Powhatans?  Do they know about the Chesapeakes  who 
>lived at the entrance to the bay later named for them and were wiped out 
>--man, woman, child--  when they tried to resist being absorbed into the 
>Tsenacommach?
>_______________________
>
>Foul treatment of the Indians --which included slavery--  was a  
>cross-cultural problem in Virginia --and around the world-- long before  
>"discovery" by Europeans or any influence by  Islam on worldwide  slavery.  
>To try to limit and/or  assign the  blame on any one group is pointless 
>unless we're learning something that might help toward putting a stop to 
>slavery now.
>
>
>Joanne Kartak
>
>
>
>
>Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> wrote: My question is what did Islam 
>have to do with Europeans enslaving Indians?
>No one seems to want to answer that.
>
>Anita
> >From: macbd1
> >Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> >
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.)
> >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:06:13 -0500
> >
> >Let's not be so kind.
> >
> >While European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the 
>Americas
> >(that included Virginia) lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab
> >involvement in slave trade lasted *fourteen* centuries, and in some parts
> >of
> >the Muslim world is still continuing to this day.  Over 28 Million 
>Africans
> >have been enslaved in the Muslim world during this time, with some
> >estimates
> >being 'much' higher.  A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the
> >American
> >slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.
> >
> >While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men,
> >the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for
> >every
> >man were enslaved by the Muslims.
> >
> >While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic
> >was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the
> >Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!
> >
> >While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for
> >agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East
> >were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military
> >service.
> >
> >While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of
> >their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very 
>few
> >descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.  
>(Maybe
> >they were just "incorporated into society," huh??)
> >
> >While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families,
> >most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and
> >most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.
> >
> >Of the estimated 11 million Africans transported across the Atlantic (the
> >actual number is debatable), approximately 95% went to South and Central
> >America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions.
> >'Only' 4-5% of the total were transported to what was to become
> >The United States. (It seems terrible to discuss slavery in statistical
> >terms.)
> >
> >While Christian Reformers spearheaded the antislavery abolitionist
> >movements
> >in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilized her Navy,
> >throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set
> >captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the
> >Muslim world.
> >
> >Even after Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and Europe abolished
> >the
> >slave trade in 1815, Muslim slave traders enslaved a further 2 million
> >Africans. This despite vigorous British Naval activity and military
> >intervention to limit the Muslim slave trade.
> >
> >By some calculations the number of victims of the 14 centuries of Muslim
> >slave trade could exceed 180 million. Nearly 100 years after President
> >Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in America, and 130
> >years after all slaves within the British Empire were set free by
> >parliamentary decree, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, in 1962, and Mauritania in
> >1980, begrudgingly removed legalized slavery from their statute books.
> >
> >And this only after international pressure was brought to bear. Today
> >numerous international organizations (and news media) document that 
>slavery
> >in its worst terms still continues in some Muslim countries -- like 
>Darfur,
> >Sudan, Somalia, Mauritania and Chad among others.
> >
> >Much of the above statistical data from Assyrian International News
> >Agency's
> >study of many sources, some of which are available online.
> >http://www.aina.org/
> >
> >My feelings about slavery was posted 3/2/07 during a prior thread
> >concerning
> >WPA Slave Narratives, see copy far below.  With such strongly felt 
>emotions
> >against slavery then and now, by many (including Southerners), wouldn't
> >Virginian historians and members at this list be better served to take
> >positive action against slavery yet existing in today's Muslim world than
> >trying to squeeze more and more out of apologies by today's society,
> >whether
> >or not their ancestors were slave owners?  Emotions by common citizens of
> >our Southen States during the sorry times of our nation's Civil War
> >involved
> >more than slavery.  It seems, for some, that 'something' will always be
> >lacking from today's apologies, including that of Virginia's
> >legislature....it's never quite enough....
> >
> >With history discussions at this list repeating 'identical' topics and
> >commentary
> >about slavery, WPA slave narratives, etc quite often, a young visitor 
>might
> >wonder whether anything else happened in Virginia's past.
> >
> >Neil McDonald
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Heinegg"
>
> >To:
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:03 PM
> >Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral 
>stance,
> >etc.)
> >
> >
> >>If you read Lovejoy or other works that discuss the Islamic trade in
> >>slaves
> >>from Africa to the Middle East, you may be--as I was--amazed to learn 
>the
> >>huge numbers
> >>that were involved.
> >>-------------
> >>Segal estimates it to be about the same as the Atlantic trade, but it 
>took
> >>place over eight centuries+.
> >>
> >>Many of the men were eunuchs. It is estimated that 1 in 200 potential
> >>eunuchs made it alive to their destinations. Those that survived were
> >>greatly revered in Muslim society, some becoming generals, heads of 
>state,
> >>etc. In the early 20th century when eunuchs entered the tramcars in
> >>Istanbul, all Turks would stand and greet them, and remain standing 
>until
> >>they took their seat.
> >>
> >>The survival rate from walking 2,500 miles across the Sahara from West
> >>Africa to Egypt or Northern Africa was, as you might imagine, much worse
> >>than the survival rate in the Atlantic trade on ships.
> >>
> >>Under pressure from the British the Turks closed the slave market in
> >>Istanbul in 1846, but in 1855 "the head of the Muslim community in Mecca
> >>issued a fatwa declaring that the ban was a breach of Islamic holy law 
>and
> >>that the Turks were apostates and heathens upon whom it was obligatory 
>to
> >>wage holy war." Slavery was still legal in Saudi in the 1950s and
> >>continued
> >>to some extent into the 1980s. It was replaced by hiring Filipino and
> >>Indian
> >>"house maids." When I worked in Saudi, I used to hear my Saudi work 
>mates
> >>joking about taking advantage of their maids.
> >>
> >>I think the South has the same problem as the Saudis. Emancipation was
> >>enforced. The recent state legislature apologies to African Americans 
>for
> >>the damage slavery did to the African American community both before and
> >>after slavery is a great stride toward ridding the soul of those past
> >>actions. The only thing that is lacking in the apologies is the
> >>acknowledgement of how wrong it was for their white ancestors in the 
>1860s
> >>to still be fighting to maintain slavery. One wonders when they would 
>have
> >>agreed to emancipation if left to their own devices.
> >>
> >>Paul
> >>
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "macbd1"
> >To:
> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:11 PM
> >Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Slave Narrative for WPA Project
> >
> >
> >>How can we allow, let alone participate in, such a bland discussion 
>about
> >>basic human rights, where some even believe, or rather 'say,' that 
>slaves
> >>were apparently happy with their plight.  Human slavery and traumatic
> >>family upheaval and transportation, is/was such an abomination, so
> >>demeaning, so  basically inhuman, so cruel, so wrong, so unacceptable.
> >>Freedom with liberty for all is man's ultimate way (it's sad that I feel
> >>inclined
> >>to add for this forum, meaning all of humankind.)  Read the words and
> >>minds
> >>of those who violently rebelled, those who ran away, those who had the
> >>will
> >>and found the means for obtaining freedom or death, those who sacrificed
> >>so much in so many ways, to truly understand.  Do the same for the many
> >>individuals who helped the rebels and runaways.  Think about words of 
>the
> >>old hymn, 'Free at Last,' and interpretations of many other 'old Negro
> >>spirituals' (historical context) of the early/mid 19th century.  Read
> >>other
> >>sources, many on-line, for personal letters by slaves and ex-slaves.  
>Look
> >>inside yourself and extrapolate the dots.
> >>
> >>Should we expect ex-slaves to have exclaimed:  I believe it is
> >>self-evident, that all men are created equal, that we are endowed, by 
>our
> >>Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,
> >>Liberty,
> >>and the pursuit of Happiness -- and, by God, never forget as to prevent
> >>slavery's recurrence or appearance elsewhere!
> >>
> >>Some conclusions simply don't require much discussion, IMHO.
> >>
> >>Neil McDonald
> >>
> >>An old Scotch-Irishman
> >>having early/mid-19th century ancestors
> >>just above Ripley, Ohio.
>
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