Please continue this endless argument someplace else. It has degenerated into repetitious personal attacks that are unprofessional, unseemly, unpersuasive, and counter-productive. It has ceased to accomplish anything other than annoy the audience.
*******************************
Robert D. Shriner ([log in to unmask])
Warrenton, VA -- Phone:703-679-8148
*******************************
Blessed are the flexible, for they shall
not get bent out of shape
-----Original Message-----
From: VA-HIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
To: VA-HIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:02 am
Subject: VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207)
There are 14 messages totaling 1383 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. "The Monster of Monticello" (8)
2. 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe (2)
3. Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers?
4. Dred Scott decision
5. To help Fort Monroe
6. Tomahund Plantation
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:57:18 -0500
From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States)
at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel
property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little
more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
under the statute of federal marshalls.
I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR
USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of
African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that
Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
regard.
>
> Gregg Kimball
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context
of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it
and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA
on their way to Gettysburg
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:28:51 +0000
From: "Kimball, Gregg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
You wrote: "His troops individually may have done any number of things within
the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?" My response and
the article cited are directly to that point. If you actually have something to
say on the subject at hand, I'm all ears.
The Fugitive Slave Act spells out the procedure for the recovery of human
property. How was that procedure followed in the case of Lee's Army during the
Gettysburg Campaign? What evidence was proffered that the people taken were in
fact the property of anyone? What slaveholder was making such claim?
Gregg Kimball
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States)
at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel
property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little
more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
under the statute of federal marshalls.
I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR
USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of
African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that
Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
regard.
>
> Gregg Kimball
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context
of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it
and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA
on their way to Gettysburg
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500
From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> From: Jeff Southmayd
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land
> (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect.
> Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning
> them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or
> cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal
> marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills
> when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get
> to some level of objectivity.
Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in
antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of that
day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly
imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth
of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is
often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who
dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the
Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't citizens
and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we get
from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to
take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped
thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the
mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message.
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:55:59 -0600
From: John Philip Adams <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held
for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state.
JPADAMS
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves
were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their
owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and
in fact required under the statute of federal marshal's.
I think some may need to take a couple PC neutralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER
OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM
YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture
of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein
and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written
evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was
doing in this regard.
>
> Gregg Kimball
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER
OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM
YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000
From: "Crawford, Greg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land." According
to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses.
Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, pigs,
and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the Library
of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small sampling.
Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves: Died
from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife.
Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe, unmerciful
and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T. Fletcher.
Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day of
her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as
punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While working
over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and whipping"
and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and fall
were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on the part
of her master."
Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave belonging to
Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle of
Louisa County.
Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds inflicted
upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn. Said dogs
were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn.
Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel
treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and
administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention of
killing Rose.
Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave owned by
Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from a cow
hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis'
overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered detailed
testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's cries for
mercy and did nothing.
Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave owned by
Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired for the
year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem
examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... "jury
concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a number of
stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue
quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and
exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder."
Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and
folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve from
criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who promoted
the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society.
Greg Crawford
Library of Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States)
at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel
property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little
more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
under the statute of federal marshalls.
I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR
USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of
African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that
Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
regard.
>
> Gregg Kimball
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context
of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:18:56 -0000
From: Walter Waddell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily
-------------------------------
"Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire,
comments, and commentary that come into existence from the events of our
times and from the perception thereof; land on this machine; and, that are
passed on for an independent evaluation by the various recipients of whom
have had the "un-luck" to have generally and generously revealed their email
address.
"Found On The Internet" is not an original work from this machine; may have
been edited to remove certain blatant elements of derision; does not
necessarily reflect an endorsement, approval, or disapproval of its content;
and, is not to be considered as valid in truth and substance; i. e. taken
prima facie.
"Found On The Internet" relies on the acumen of its recipients to be of
sufficient mental balance to absorb the content with calm and composure;
and, to appreciate its sole purpose is to "gift you of what's out there".
"Found On The Internet" heartily encourages and frequently uses the
extremely efficient and effective "delete" function.
All of this post is formed from philosophical opinion or information for
purposes of sharing intellect and ideas leading to the formation of rational
policies that promote the physical, economic, or social well being and
security of the U.S.; and, in no way are meant to incite illegal acts or
impart threats to others of any station. All of this disclaimer is deemed to
be necessary for inclusion owing to the absurdity of the times and the
popularity of its discord.
We all want the same things in life: Trouble comes; we all want them on our
own terms."
-----------------------------------------
?
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:59:50 +0000
From: "Hardwick, Kevin - hardwikr" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers?
Mr. Southmayd has suggested that General Lee was not legally responsible for the
actions of his soldiers. This turns out to be an interesting claim. At first
glance, the claim is obviously in error, since under military law, "Command
Responsibility" extends up the military chain of command to all officers aware
of infractions. By this reasoning, if the actions of Lee's soldiers were
criminal, Lee bears clear legal responsibility for them.
However, the legal doctrine of Command Responsibility was not fully articulated
until 1907, in the Hague conventions of that year. An important earlier
antecedent was the "Lieber Code" of 1863, established by President Lincoln in
response to the decisions of Confederate authorities to treat captured black
soldiers radically differently from white, and to re-enslave (or just enslave)
captured blacks. The Lieber code explicitly forbade the killing of prisoners of
war, and established ethical standards for treatment of civilian populations.
In the final years of the war, the Code provided the legal basis for
prosecutions of southern soldiers for what we would not call "war crimes."
But did the Lieber Code extend to Lee and his soldiers? Pretty clearly,
northern civilian and military officers serving as judges believed that it did,
since they successfully prosecuted southern soldiers for violating them. And of
course, if it did, then pretty clearly Lee bears both moral and legal
responsibility for those actions by his soldiers which violated the Code. Here,
the issue gets mixed up in the question of the legality of secession. I find
Lincoln's constitutional argument--the man was, after all, a very fine
lawyer--that unilateral secession is illegal and unconstitutional to be
compelling. If that is so, then the law of 1863 did extend to Lee and his
soldiers, and Lee is thus both morally and legally accountable.
Our larger conversation has largely turned on moral arguments, and Mr. Southmayd
is correct to remind us that law and morality are not always the same thing.
However, on closer inspection, in this instance they are quite close. General
Lee could properly have been held legally accountable for the crimes of his
soldiers. That he was not is a reflection of the prudential restraint of
Northern authorities, but not on Lee's moral and legal culpability.
All best wishes,
Kevin
___________________________
Kevin R. Hardwick
Associate Professor
Department of History, MSC 8001
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:19:02 -0500
From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dred Scott decision
Mr. Adams,
The Dred Scott decisions was tried and handed down in St. Louis, Missouri. A
"nasty slave holding state." The old court house there is now an
African-American history museum.
Craig Kilby
On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:55 AM, John Philip Adams wrote:
> You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held
> for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state.
> JPADAMS
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:32:25 -0500
From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe
I don't understand the series of numbers in the subject line, and I don't
understand the paragraphs about "Found on the Internet," but I can ask that
if anybody reads the cited Virginian-Pilot article--a decent effort by a
newcomer reporter who is naturally short on context--she or he should please
also read all three of the online comments that I posted beneath it. I do
not recommend, however, even bothering with the article at all. Thanks.
Steve Corneliussen
> From: Walter Waddell Subject: [VA-HIST] 12141618Z12 Found On The
> Internet - Fort Monroe
> http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily
> "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire,
> comments, and commentary ...
[snip]
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:35:24 -0500
From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: To help Fort Monroe
> From: Melinda Skinner
> This is very sad to hear. I had believed the "big lie."
- - - -
> From: Jurretta J. Heckscher
> I have not yet had a chance to read the report, but I wonder if you could
> refresh our memories about whom to contact to register our disagreement
> with the present course of action? Thanks.
- - - -
Thanks. You can write to Virginia's leaders, but they're hopeless. So I have
another suggestion.
But first: It's important to reiterate that Virginia's leaders did engineer
a national monument (i.e., a national park by presidential decree). However,
they split it bizarrely to privilege developers, as seen in a glance at the
photo-plus-map illustration at http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/. The
Big Lie, accepted unskeptically by national media, is that all of Fort
Monroe became nationally stewarded.
Now, it's fine to omit the "development area" that's shown in the cited
illustration, but not to omit the sense-of-place-defining bayfront. The
Norfolk Virginian-Pilot declares that that crucial land "should be
permanently set aside as open space and added to the park as soon as
possible." The editors declare that protecting it “from development--any
development--is critical to securing" Fort Monroe's integrity, lest the
"value as a historic site, a natural resource and tourist attraction...be
degraded."
Please note that word "degraded." In fact, please quote it from the Pilot's
April editorial (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe) if
you write to anyone. I'm just some science writer in Poquoson. They're
Tidewater's leading daily. (But I do hope you cite my
http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/ with its key illustration.)
So what can people do?
It looks increasingly like we need a deus ex machina, which is what I said
in an op-ed nearly two years ago. (It's at
http://articles.dailypress.com/2011-01-15/news/dp-news-oped-corneliussen-0116-20110115_1_fort-monroe-authority-national-treasure-91st-district
and it's peppered with ads.) I recommended the Antiquities Act and
intervention by the president to avoid what I called, and still call, an
American cultural disaster. Unfortunately, that idea got exploited in a
perverse way, I suspect mainly by former Governor Tim Kaine. He's the chief
perp in this story (with plenty of bipartisan complicity, mind you), and he
had the president's ear at the time. In any case, the president got
snookered into making a fake, bifurcated national monument, with the heart
of the historic landscape consigned to some degree of development. The
actual degree is being kept vague, which is why the Pilot stipulated against
"development--any development."
The only intervention I can now imagine (unless someone gets to Mrs. Obama,
or something) could come via an unlikely awakening of the oblivious, lazy,
press-release-believing national media.
(Energetic public attention by a Ken Burns, an Oprah Winfrey or nationally
prominent historians would also have a chance--though Adam Goodheart, Ed
Ayers and Douglas Brinkley have all accepted the fake, bifurcated national
monument, in each case after talking to me and others, and in each case
astonishing me. Jurretta might remember that I still owe her that whole
story.)
So here's my idea for a deus ex machina: Fort Monroe needs letters to the
editor, and the like, during the coming national focus on the
sesquicentennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. The letters could say
lots of good things, but some might look something like what you see below
the dashed line. The idea is to summon national accountability, and maybe
some shaming, for the very people who tried to fool Virginia and the country
with the Big Lie.
Thanks.
Steven T. Corneliussen
- - - - - - - -
ONE POSSIBLE LETTER TO THE EDITOR (OR FACEBOOK POSTING, OR WHATEVER):
Given the importance of the proclamation, and given that enterprising Black
self-emancipators set into motion the politics that led to it, why is there
so little attention to the controversy over post-Army Fort Monroe in
Tidewater Virginia?
Along with the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot
(http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe), people there are
demanding unification of the split national monument/park that the president
established in 2011.
The problem, as seen at a glance in the illustration at
http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/, is that the bifurcation sacrifices
to developers the sense-of-place-defining center of the historic landscape,
which was the first landing place of the first captive Africans a
quarter-millennium before the self-emancipation movement blossomed there in
1861.
Would we ever allow condos on a Monticello hillside? Why is the country
giving Virginia's developer-dominated politicians a free pass on Fort
Monroe?
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:52:31 -0500
From: Terry Meyers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tomahund Plantation
This is intriguing -- it's not a planation I'd heard of and doesn't seem to
figure in such an account of James River Plantations as that in Tyler's Cradle
of the Republic, but photographs of it do show up through Google.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/13129?size=_original#caption
Could it have been associated with Sandy Point? If so, these accounts of Sandy
Point might offer some indirect evidence about it:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q=Tomahund&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA343#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA485#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false
On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Ronald Seagrave wrote:
> Anyone with data on Tomahund Plantation on the north side of the James
River...
>
> Ron Seagrave
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry L.. Meyers, Chancellor Professor of English, College of William and Mary,
Williamsburg Virginia 23187 757-221-3932
http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/tlmeye/
http://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have we got a college? Have we got a football team?....Well, we can't
afford both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.
--Groucho Marx, in "Horse Feathers."
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:23:16 -0500
From: Melinda Skinner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
Not everybody believed that slaves were chattel. There were plenty of people--
in both the north and the south-- who recognized the evil of slavery and spoke
out about it. Even some southerners worked actively to end it. This talk of
"objectivity" in the context of the time is a red herring.
Sent from Melinda's
iPad
On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:57 AM, Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were
chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was
little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact
required under the statute of federal marshalls.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of
African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that
Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
regard.
>>
>> Gregg Kimball
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>>
>> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context
of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
>>
>> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
>> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
>> 386.445.9156
>> 888.557.3686 FAX
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>> **********************************************************
>> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
>> ********************************************************
>>
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it
and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA
on their way to Gettysburg
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________
>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
>>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:33:11 -0500
From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
Well let's recall that black slavery originated in Africa hundreds of years
before the Euopeans came on the scene.
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR
USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land."
According to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses.
Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, pigs,
and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the Library
of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small sampling.
>
> Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves:
Died from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife.
>
> Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe,
unmerciful and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T.
Fletcher.
>
> Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day of
her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as
punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While working
over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and whipping"
and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and fall
were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on the part
of her master."
>
> Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave belonging
to Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle of
Louisa County.
>
> Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds
inflicted upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn.
Said dogs were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn.
>
> Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel
treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and
administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention of
killing Rose.
>
> Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave owned by
Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from a cow
hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis'
overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered detailed
testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's cries for
mercy and did nothing.
>
> Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave owned by
Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired for the
year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem
examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... "jury
concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a number of
stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue
quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and
exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder."
>
> Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and
folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve from
criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who promoted
the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society.
>
> Greg Crawford
> Library of Virginia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were
chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was
little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact
required under the statute of federal marshalls.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing
slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture
of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that
Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
regard.
> >
> > Gregg Kimball
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> > 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF
THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:46:25 -0500
From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
I don't try and rehash history by today's standards, or wish I could get in a
time machine and go back save the world from its wicked past. It is what it is
and was the result of the times past as they were. As a Christian, I know all
that has come to pass is God's will and has meaning that either has been shown
or will be shown in His time. I do believe that the War of Northern Invasion
was God's price for the wickedness of black enslavement by a Christian country
that had lost its way and sailed far from the shore. To me, that is the lesson
to be learned from the black slavery chapter of our American history and needs
to be kept in mind today as we sail once again far for the shore.
JDS
SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
386.445.9156
888.557.3686 FAX
[log in to unmask]
**********************************************************
THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN
INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR
USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM.
THANK YOU.
********************************************************
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> > From: Jeff Southmayd
> > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land
> > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect.
> > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning
> > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or
> > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal
> > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills
> > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get
> > to some level of objectivity.
>
> Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in
> antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of that
> day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly
> imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth
> of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is
> often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who
> dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the
> Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't citizens
> and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we get
> from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to
> take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped
> thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the
> mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message.
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
------------------------------
End of VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207)
**************************************************************
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
|
