Please continue this endless argument someplace else. It has degenerated into repetitious personal attacks that are unprofessional, unseemly, unpersuasive, and counter-productive. It has ceased to accomplish anything other than annoy the audience. ******************************* Robert D. Shriner ([log in to unmask]) Warrenton, VA -- Phone:703-679-8148 ******************************* Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not get bent out of shape -----Original Message----- From: VA-HIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> To: VA-HIST <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:02 am Subject: VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207) There are 14 messages totaling 1383 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. "The Monster of Monticello" (8) 2. 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe (2) 3. Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers? 4. Dred Scott decision 5. To help Fort Monroe 6. Tomahund Plantation ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:57:18 -0500 From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. SOUTHMAYD & MILLER 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. > > Gregg Kimball > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:28:51 +0000 From: "Kimball, Gregg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" You wrote: "His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?" My response and the article cited are directly to that point. If you actually have something to say on the subject at hand, I'm all ears. The Fugitive Slave Act spells out the procedure for the recovery of human property. How was that procedure followed in the case of Lee's Army during the Gettysburg Campaign? What evidence was proffered that the people taken were in fact the property of anyone? What slaveholder was making such claim? Gregg Kimball -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. SOUTHMAYD & MILLER 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. > > Gregg Kimball > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500 From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > From: Jeff Southmayd > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get > to some level of objectivity. Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of that day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't citizens and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we get from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message. ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:55:59 -0600 From: John Philip Adams <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state. JPADAMS -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshal's. I think some may need to take a couple PC neutralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. SOUTHMAYD & MILLER 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. > > Gregg Kimball > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000 From: "Crawford, Greg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land." According to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses. Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, pigs, and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the Library of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small sampling. Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves: Died from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife. Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe, unmerciful and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T. Fletcher. Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day of her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While working over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and whipping" and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and fall were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on the part of her master." Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave belonging to Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle of Louisa County. Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds inflicted upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn. Said dogs were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn. Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention of killing Rose. Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave owned by Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from a cow hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis' overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered detailed testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's cries for mercy and did nothing. Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave owned by Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired for the year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... "jury concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a number of stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder." Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve from criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who promoted the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society. Greg Crawford Library of Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. SOUTHMAYD & MILLER 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. > > Gregg Kimball > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:18:56 -0000 From: Walter Waddell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily ------------------------------- "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire, comments, and commentary that come into existence from the events of our times and from the perception thereof; land on this machine; and, that are passed on for an independent evaluation by the various recipients of whom have had the "un-luck" to have generally and generously revealed their email address. "Found On The Internet" is not an original work from this machine; may have been edited to remove certain blatant elements of derision; does not necessarily reflect an endorsement, approval, or disapproval of its content; and, is not to be considered as valid in truth and substance; i. e. taken prima facie. "Found On The Internet" relies on the acumen of its recipients to be of sufficient mental balance to absorb the content with calm and composure; and, to appreciate its sole purpose is to "gift you of what's out there". "Found On The Internet" heartily encourages and frequently uses the extremely efficient and effective "delete" function. All of this post is formed from philosophical opinion or information for purposes of sharing intellect and ideas leading to the formation of rational policies that promote the physical, economic, or social well being and security of the U.S.; and, in no way are meant to incite illegal acts or impart threats to others of any station. All of this disclaimer is deemed to be necessary for inclusion owing to the absurdity of the times and the popularity of its discord. We all want the same things in life: Trouble comes; we all want them on our own terms." ----------------------------------------- ? ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:59:50 +0000 From: "Hardwick, Kevin - hardwikr" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers? Mr. Southmayd has suggested that General Lee was not legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers. This turns out to be an interesting claim. At first glance, the claim is obviously in error, since under military law, "Command Responsibility" extends up the military chain of command to all officers aware of infractions. By this reasoning, if the actions of Lee's soldiers were criminal, Lee bears clear legal responsibility for them. However, the legal doctrine of Command Responsibility was not fully articulated until 1907, in the Hague conventions of that year. An important earlier antecedent was the "Lieber Code" of 1863, established by President Lincoln in response to the decisions of Confederate authorities to treat captured black soldiers radically differently from white, and to re-enslave (or just enslave) captured blacks. The Lieber code explicitly forbade the killing of prisoners of war, and established ethical standards for treatment of civilian populations. In the final years of the war, the Code provided the legal basis for prosecutions of southern soldiers for what we would not call "war crimes." But did the Lieber Code extend to Lee and his soldiers? Pretty clearly, northern civilian and military officers serving as judges believed that it did, since they successfully prosecuted southern soldiers for violating them. And of course, if it did, then pretty clearly Lee bears both moral and legal responsibility for those actions by his soldiers which violated the Code. Here, the issue gets mixed up in the question of the legality of secession. I find Lincoln's constitutional argument--the man was, after all, a very fine lawyer--that unilateral secession is illegal and unconstitutional to be compelling. If that is so, then the law of 1863 did extend to Lee and his soldiers, and Lee is thus both morally and legally accountable. Our larger conversation has largely turned on moral arguments, and Mr. Southmayd is correct to remind us that law and morality are not always the same thing. However, on closer inspection, in this instance they are quite close. General Lee could properly have been held legally accountable for the crimes of his soldiers. That he was not is a reflection of the prudential restraint of Northern authorities, but not on Lee's moral and legal culpability. All best wishes, Kevin ___________________________ Kevin R. Hardwick Associate Professor Department of History, MSC 8001 James Madison University Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807 ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:19:02 -0500 From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Dred Scott decision Mr. Adams, The Dred Scott decisions was tried and handed down in St. Louis, Missouri. A "nasty slave holding state." The old court house there is now an African-American history museum. Craig Kilby On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:55 AM, John Philip Adams wrote: > You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held > for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state. > JPADAMS ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:32:25 -0500 From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe I don't understand the series of numbers in the subject line, and I don't understand the paragraphs about "Found on the Internet," but I can ask that if anybody reads the cited Virginian-Pilot article--a decent effort by a newcomer reporter who is naturally short on context--she or he should please also read all three of the online comments that I posted beneath it. I do not recommend, however, even bothering with the article at all. Thanks. Steve Corneliussen > From: Walter Waddell Subject: [VA-HIST] 12141618Z12 Found On The > Internet - Fort Monroe > http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily > "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire, > comments, and commentary ... [snip] ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:35:24 -0500 From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: To help Fort Monroe > From: Melinda Skinner > This is very sad to hear. I had believed the "big lie." - - - - > From: Jurretta J. Heckscher > I have not yet had a chance to read the report, but I wonder if you could > refresh our memories about whom to contact to register our disagreement > with the present course of action? Thanks. - - - - Thanks. You can write to Virginia's leaders, but they're hopeless. So I have another suggestion. But first: It's important to reiterate that Virginia's leaders did engineer a national monument (i.e., a national park by presidential decree). However, they split it bizarrely to privilege developers, as seen in a glance at the photo-plus-map illustration at http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/. The Big Lie, accepted unskeptically by national media, is that all of Fort Monroe became nationally stewarded. Now, it's fine to omit the "development area" that's shown in the cited illustration, but not to omit the sense-of-place-defining bayfront. The Norfolk Virginian-Pilot declares that that crucial land "should be permanently set aside as open space and added to the park as soon as possible." The editors declare that protecting it “from development--any development--is critical to securing" Fort Monroe's integrity, lest the "value as a historic site, a natural resource and tourist attraction...be degraded." Please note that word "degraded." In fact, please quote it from the Pilot's April editorial (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe) if you write to anyone. I'm just some science writer in Poquoson. They're Tidewater's leading daily. (But I do hope you cite my http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/ with its key illustration.) So what can people do? It looks increasingly like we need a deus ex machina, which is what I said in an op-ed nearly two years ago. (It's at http://articles.dailypress.com/2011-01-15/news/dp-news-oped-corneliussen-0116-20110115_1_fort-monroe-authority-national-treasure-91st-district and it's peppered with ads.) I recommended the Antiquities Act and intervention by the president to avoid what I called, and still call, an American cultural disaster. Unfortunately, that idea got exploited in a perverse way, I suspect mainly by former Governor Tim Kaine. He's the chief perp in this story (with plenty of bipartisan complicity, mind you), and he had the president's ear at the time. In any case, the president got snookered into making a fake, bifurcated national monument, with the heart of the historic landscape consigned to some degree of development. The actual degree is being kept vague, which is why the Pilot stipulated against "development--any development." The only intervention I can now imagine (unless someone gets to Mrs. Obama, or something) could come via an unlikely awakening of the oblivious, lazy, press-release-believing national media. (Energetic public attention by a Ken Burns, an Oprah Winfrey or nationally prominent historians would also have a chance--though Adam Goodheart, Ed Ayers and Douglas Brinkley have all accepted the fake, bifurcated national monument, in each case after talking to me and others, and in each case astonishing me. Jurretta might remember that I still owe her that whole story.) So here's my idea for a deus ex machina: Fort Monroe needs letters to the editor, and the like, during the coming national focus on the sesquicentennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. The letters could say lots of good things, but some might look something like what you see below the dashed line. The idea is to summon national accountability, and maybe some shaming, for the very people who tried to fool Virginia and the country with the Big Lie. Thanks. Steven T. Corneliussen - - - - - - - - ONE POSSIBLE LETTER TO THE EDITOR (OR FACEBOOK POSTING, OR WHATEVER): Given the importance of the proclamation, and given that enterprising Black self-emancipators set into motion the politics that led to it, why is there so little attention to the controversy over post-Army Fort Monroe in Tidewater Virginia? Along with the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe), people there are demanding unification of the split national monument/park that the president established in 2011. The problem, as seen at a glance in the illustration at http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/, is that the bifurcation sacrifices to developers the sense-of-place-defining center of the historic landscape, which was the first landing place of the first captive Africans a quarter-millennium before the self-emancipation movement blossomed there in 1861. Would we ever allow condos on a Monticello hillside? Why is the country giving Virginia's developer-dominated politicians a free pass on Fort Monroe? ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:52:31 -0500 From: Terry Meyers <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tomahund Plantation This is intriguing -- it's not a planation I'd heard of and doesn't seem to figure in such an account of James River Plantations as that in Tyler's Cradle of the Republic, but photographs of it do show up through Google. http://www.shorpy.com/node/13129?size=_original#caption Could it have been associated with Sandy Point? If so, these accounts of Sandy Point might offer some indirect evidence about it: http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q=Tomahund&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA343#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA485#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Ronald Seagrave wrote: > Anyone with data on Tomahund Plantation on the north side of the James River... > > Ron Seagrave > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terry L.. Meyers, Chancellor Professor of English, College of William and Mary, Williamsburg Virginia 23187 757-221-3932 http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/tlmeye/ http://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have we got a college? Have we got a football team?....Well, we can't afford both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college. --Groucho Marx, in "Horse Feathers." ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:23:16 -0500 From: Melinda Skinner <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" Not everybody believed that slaves were chattel. There were plenty of people-- in both the north and the south-- who recognized the evil of slavery and spoke out about it. Even some southerners worked actively to end it. This talk of "objectivity" in the context of the time is a red herring. Sent from Melinda's iPad On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:57 AM, Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshalls. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > >> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 >> From: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" >> To: [log in to unmask] >> >> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. >> >> Gregg Kimball >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" >> >> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? >> >> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH >> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 >> 386.445.9156 >> 888.557.3686 FAX >> >> [log in to unmask] >> ********************************************************** >> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. >> ******************************************************** >> >>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 >>> From: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> >>> I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:33:11 -0500 From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" Well let's recall that black slavery originated in Africa hundreds of years before the Euopeans came on the scene. SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land." According to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses. Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, pigs, and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the Library of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small sampling. > > Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves: Died from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife. > > Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe, unmerciful and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T. Fletcher. > > Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day of her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While working over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and whipping" and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and fall were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on the part of her master." > > Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave belonging to Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle of Louisa County. > > Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds inflicted upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn. Said dogs were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn. > > Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention of killing Rose. > > Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave owned by Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from a cow hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis' overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered detailed testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's cries for mercy and did nothing. > > Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave owned by Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired for the year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... "jury concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a number of stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder." > > Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve from criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who promoted the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society. > > Greg Crawford > Library of Virginia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal marshalls. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The Capture of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this regard. > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > > 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:46:25 -0500 From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" I don't try and rehash history by today's standards, or wish I could get in a time machine and go back save the world from its wicked past. It is what it is and was the result of the times past as they were. As a Christian, I know all that has come to pass is God's will and has meaning that either has been shown or will be shown in His time. I do believe that the War of Northern Invasion was God's price for the wickedness of black enslavement by a Christian country that had lost its way and sailed far from the shore. To me, that is the lesson to be learned from the black slavery chapter of our American history and needs to be kept in mind today as we sail once again far for the shore. JDS SOUTHMAYD & MILLER 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 386.445.9156 888.557.3686 FAX [log in to unmask] ********************************************************** THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. ******************************************************** > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > To: [log in to unmask] > > > From: Jeff Southmayd > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land > > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. > > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning > > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or > > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal > > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills > > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get > > to some level of objectivity. > > Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in > antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of that > day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly > imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth > of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is > often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who > dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the > Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't citizens > and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we get > from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to > take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped > thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the > mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message. > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ------------------------------ End of VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207) ************************************************************** ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html