I suspect plenty of widowers do it, even today [live celibate lives].
People can and do "turn it off" when times require. But in TJs case,
we'll never know. I do want to throw another log on the fire here and
ask what any of you think about his depiction in "Dominion of
Memories", by Susan Dunn. It's an interesting book, on some levels I
find it annoyingly on the mark, many of the attitudes she describes
still exist here in Va, and can make you want to tear your hair out
in frustration. But it also seems she takes an excessively negative
view, or paints with too broad a brush. Perhaps the fact that Va [and
the Carolinas] endured 3 wars in 90 years also had something to do
with their "backwardness."
But I find her depiction of TJ surprising, having grown up with him
shown on a pedestal all my life. He seems to have had his "moments in
the sun" where he did great things, mainly in areas where his
intellect could shine. Those thought processes seemed to have been
very idealistic, which was what we needed during the Revolutionary
period. But then he retired to Monticello and lived in splendid
isolation, handing down his idealism in the form of stultifying
edicts about the good old days and staying true to one's agrarian
roots. If true, he did his state a great disservice and was really in
no position to be directing the course Virginia was taking, with all
his theories that were growth- damaging, not growth-enhancing. If he
truly did see himself as the Sage of Monticello, trying to direct the
course of his state as he once directed the course of the new nation,
let's face it, he might have seen himself on a different plane than
as a sexually frustrated plantation owner sleeping with a slave
woman. It seems to me his ideals and thoughts in his retirement
became, as so often happens with the older folks, more and more
inward looking and conservative. A weed to entangle the only
political dominion he had left, Virginia, and not the flowering of
liberty it once was. From Ms. Dunn's depiction it makes me wonder if
his conservative elder self had been plopped down in 1770s
Philadelphia, what position he would have taken-- Patriot or Tory?
But it seems to me his character was one rooted in idealism and the
intellect; all his tinkering and planting at Monticello was because
his inquiring intellect wanted to Know Things. Satisfying that
intellectual craving seemed to be a big motivator in his life [which
brings up the side question of how big a motivator physical needs
were in the man-- sex, fine foods, excellent wines]. But as he was
more isolated from the busy-ness of the world, his ideals took on an
increasingly impractical tone. One must also then ask, as a legend in
his own mind, if he would have slept with a "mere slave", and if his
passion for Mrs. Cosway was in large part an idealism, the "perfect
love", etc.
Jes' askin'
Nancy
-------
I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.
--Daniel Boone
On May 5, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Stephan A. Schwartz wrote:
> I think Nancy is correct. There is not a scintilla of evidence
> that Jefferson was asexual. It is undeniable that Martha and
> Thomas Jefferson had an active and apparently satisfying sex life,
> and his attraction to Maria Cosway tells us he was not of a
> celibate inclination. Are we to assume then that for the
> remaining two-thirds of his life he was a chronic masturbator? Ask
> yourself, are you prepared to live for half a century without a
> sexual relationship, or without lying in bed cuddling the man or
> woman you are sleeping with? If the answer is yes, you should
> consider life in the Roman clergy. It's better than tenure.
>
> -- Stephan
>
>
> On 4 May 2008, at 22:17, Anne Pemberton wrote:
>
>> Nancy,
>>
>> I fail to see how noting that he was a sexual person is "trashing
>> him".
>>
>> As a widower, we would expect a healthy male to make some
>> provisions for sexual outlets. There were all sorts of taboos back
>> then for "taking matters in hand". NOT providing such an outlet
>> could have made TJ a rather dour man who was not capable of the
>> leadership that he exhibited.
>>
>>
>
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