Agreed.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bob Shriner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Please continue this endless argument someplace else. It has
> degenerated into repetitious personal attacks that are unprofessional,
> unseemly, unpersuasive, and counter-productive. It has ceased to
> accomplish anything other than annoy the audience.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *******************************
> Robert D. Shriner ([log in to unmask])
> Warrenton, VA -- Phone:703-679-8148
> *******************************
> Blessed are the flexible, for they shall
> not get bent out of shape
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VA-HIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
> To: VA-HIST <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:02 am
> Subject: VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207)
>
>
> There are 14 messages totaling 1383 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. "The Monster of Monticello" (8)
> 2. 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe (2)
> 3. Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers?
> 4. Dred Scott decision
> 5. To help Fort Monroe
> 6. Tomahund Plantation
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:57:18 -0500
> From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States)
> at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were
> chattel
> property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was
> little
> more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
> under the statute of federal marshalls.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN
> INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
> DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR
> USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
> DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
> THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture of
> African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
> Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence
> that
> Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
> regard.
> >
> > Gregg Kimball
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context
> of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> check it
> and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks
> in PA
> on their way to Gettysburg
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions
> at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions
> at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:28:51 +0000
> From: "Kimball, Gregg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> You wrote: "His troops individually may have done any number of things
> within
> the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?" My response
> and
> the article cited are directly to that point. If you actually have
> something to
> say on the subject at hand, I'm all ears.
>
> The Fugitive Slave Act spells out the procedure for the recovery of human
> property. How was that procedure followed in the case of Lee's Army during
> the
> Gettysburg Campaign? What evidence was proffered that the people taken
> were in
> fact the property of anyone? What slaveholder was making such claim?
>
> Gregg Kimball
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States)
> at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were
> chattel
> property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was
> little
> more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
> under the statute of federal marshalls.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN
> INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
> DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR
> USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
> DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
> THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture of
> African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
> Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence
> that
> Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
> regard.
> >
> > Gregg Kimball
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context
> of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> check it
> and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks
> in PA
> on their way to Gettysburg
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions
> at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions
> at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500
> From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> > From: Jeff Southmayd
> > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land
> > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect.
> > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning
> > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or
> > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal
> > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills
> > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get
> > to some level of objectivity.
>
> Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in
> antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of
> that
> day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly
> imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth
> of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is
> often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who
> dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the
> Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't
> citizens
> and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we
> get
> from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to
> take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped
> thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the
> mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message.
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:55:59 -0600
> From: John Philip Adams <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held
> for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state.
> JPADAMS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves
> were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their
> owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner,
> and
> in fact required under the statute of federal marshal's.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC neutralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER
> OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM
> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture
> of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein
> and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written
> evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was
> doing in this regard.
> >
> > Gregg Kimball
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> > 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER
> OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM
> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000
> From: "Crawford, Greg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land."
> According
> to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses.
> Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows,
> pigs,
> and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the
> Library
> of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small
> sampling.
>
> Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves:
> Died
> from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife.
>
> Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe,
> unmerciful
> and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T.
> Fletcher.
>
> Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day
> of
> her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as
> punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While
> working
> over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and
> whipping"
> and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and
> fall
> were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on
> the part
> of her master."
>
> Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave
> belonging to
> Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle
> of
> Louisa County.
>
> Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds
> inflicted
> upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn. Said
> dogs
> were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn.
>
> Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel
> treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and
> administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention
> of
> killing Rose.
>
> Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave
> owned by
> Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from
> a cow
> hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis'
> overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered
> detailed
> testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's
> cries for
> mercy and did nothing.
>
> Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave
> owned by
> Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired
> for the
> year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem
> examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ...
> "jury
> concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a
> number of
> stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue
> quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and
> exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder."
>
> Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and
> folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve
> from
> criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who
> promoted
> the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society.
>
> Greg Crawford
> Library of Virginia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States)
> at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were
> chattel
> property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was
> little
> more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required
> under the statute of federal marshalls.
>
> I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN
> INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
> DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR
> USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
> DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
> THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture of
> African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
> Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence
> that
> Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
> regard.
> >
> > Gregg Kimball
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context
> of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> > 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:18:56 -0000
> From: Walter Waddell <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe
>
>
> http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily
>
> -------------------------------
> "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire,
> comments, and commentary that come into existence from the events of our
> times and from the perception thereof; land on this machine; and, that are
> passed on for an independent evaluation by the various recipients of whom
> have had the "un-luck" to have generally and generously revealed their
> email
> address.
>
> "Found On The Internet" is not an original work from this machine; may have
> been edited to remove certain blatant elements of derision; does not
> necessarily reflect an endorsement, approval, or disapproval of its
> content;
> and, is not to be considered as valid in truth and substance; i. e. taken
> prima facie.
>
> "Found On The Internet" relies on the acumen of its recipients to be of
> sufficient mental balance to absorb the content with calm and composure;
> and, to appreciate its sole purpose is to "gift you of what's out there".
> "Found On The Internet" heartily encourages and frequently uses the
> extremely efficient and effective "delete" function.
>
> All of this post is formed from philosophical opinion or information for
> purposes of sharing intellect and ideas leading to the formation of
> rational
> policies that promote the physical, economic, or social well being and
> security of the U.S.; and, in no way are meant to incite illegal acts or
> impart threats to others of any station. All of this disclaimer is deemed
> to
> be necessary for inclusion owing to the absurdity of the times and the
> popularity of its discord.
>
> We all want the same things in life: Trouble comes; we all want them on our
> own terms."
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> ?
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:59:50 +0000
> From: "Hardwick, Kevin - hardwikr" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers?
>
> Mr. Southmayd has suggested that General Lee was not legally responsible
> for the
> actions of his soldiers. This turns out to be an interesting claim. At
> first
> glance, the claim is obviously in error, since under military law, "Command
> Responsibility" extends up the military chain of command to all officers
> aware
> of infractions. By this reasoning, if the actions of Lee's soldiers were
> criminal, Lee bears clear legal responsibility for them.
>
> However, the legal doctrine of Command Responsibility was not fully
> articulated
> until 1907, in the Hague conventions of that year. An important earlier
> antecedent was the "Lieber Code" of 1863, established by President Lincoln
> in
> response to the decisions of Confederate authorities to treat captured
> black
> soldiers radically differently from white, and to re-enslave (or just
> enslave)
> captured blacks. The Lieber code explicitly forbade the killing of
> prisoners of
> war, and established ethical standards for treatment of civilian
> populations.
> In the final years of the war, the Code provided the legal basis for
> prosecutions of southern soldiers for what we would not call "war crimes."
>
> But did the Lieber Code extend to Lee and his soldiers? Pretty clearly,
> northern civilian and military officers serving as judges believed that it
> did,
> since they successfully prosecuted southern soldiers for violating them.
> And of
> course, if it did, then pretty clearly Lee bears both moral and legal
> responsibility for those actions by his soldiers which violated the Code.
> Here,
> the issue gets mixed up in the question of the legality of secession. I
> find
> Lincoln's constitutional argument--the man was, after all, a very fine
> lawyer--that unilateral secession is illegal and unconstitutional to be
> compelling. If that is so, then the law of 1863 did extend to Lee and his
> soldiers, and Lee is thus both morally and legally accountable.
>
> Our larger conversation has largely turned on moral arguments, and Mr.
> Southmayd
> is correct to remind us that law and morality are not always the same
> thing.
> However, on closer inspection, in this instance they are quite close.
> General
> Lee could properly have been held legally accountable for the crimes of his
> soldiers. That he was not is a reflection of the prudential restraint of
> Northern authorities, but not on Lee's moral and legal culpability.
>
> All best wishes,
> Kevin
> ___________________________
> Kevin R. Hardwick
> Associate Professor
> Department of History, MSC 8001
> James Madison University
> Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:19:02 -0500
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Dred Scott decision
>
> Mr. Adams,
>
> The Dred Scott decisions was tried and handed down in St. Louis, Missouri.
> A
> "nasty slave holding state." The old court house there is now an
> African-American history museum.
>
> Craig Kilby
>
> On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:55 AM, John Philip Adams wrote:
>
> > You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held
> > for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state.
> > JPADAMS
>
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:32:25 -0500
> From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe
>
> I don't understand the series of numbers in the subject line, and I don't
> understand the paragraphs about "Found on the Internet," but I can ask that
> if anybody reads the cited Virginian-Pilot article--a decent effort by a
> newcomer reporter who is naturally short on context--she or he should
> please
> also read all three of the online comments that I posted beneath it. I do
> not recommend, however, even bothering with the article at all. Thanks.
> Steve Corneliussen
>
> > From: Walter Waddell Subject: [VA-HIST] 12141618Z12 Found On The
> > Internet - Fort Monroe
>
> >
> http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily
>
> > "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags,
> satire,
> > comments, and commentary ...
>
> [snip]
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:35:24 -0500
> From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: To help Fort Monroe
>
> > From: Melinda Skinner
> > This is very sad to hear. I had believed the "big lie."
> - - - -
> > From: Jurretta J. Heckscher
> > I have not yet had a chance to read the report, but I wonder if you could
> > refresh our memories about whom to contact to register our disagreement
> > with the present course of action? Thanks.
> - - - -
>
> Thanks. You can write to Virginia's leaders, but they're hopeless. So I
> have
> another suggestion.
>
> But first: It's important to reiterate that Virginia's leaders did engineer
> a national monument (i.e., a national park by presidential decree).
> However,
> they split it bizarrely to privilege developers, as seen in a glance at
> the
> photo-plus-map illustration at http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/. The
> Big Lie, accepted unskeptically by national media, is that all of Fort
> Monroe became nationally stewarded.
>
> Now, it's fine to omit the "development area" that's shown in the cited
> illustration, but not to omit the sense-of-place-defining bayfront. The
> Norfolk Virginian-Pilot declares that that crucial land "should be
> permanently set aside as open space and added to the park as soon as
> possible." The editors declare that protecting it “from development--any
> development--is critical to securing" Fort Monroe's integrity, lest the
> "value as a historic site, a natural resource and tourist attraction...be
> degraded."
>
> Please note that word "degraded." In fact, please quote it from the Pilot's
> April editorial (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe) if
> you write to anyone. I'm just some science writer in Poquoson. They're
> Tidewater's leading daily. (But I do hope you cite my
> http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/ with its key illustration.)
>
> So what can people do?
>
> It looks increasingly like we need a deus ex machina, which is what I said
> in an op-ed nearly two years ago. (It's at
>
> http://articles.dailypress.com/2011-01-15/news/dp-news-oped-corneliussen-0116-20110115_1_fort-monroe-authority-national-treasure-91st-district
>
> and it's peppered with ads.) I recommended the Antiquities Act and
> intervention by the president to avoid what I called, and still call, an
> American cultural disaster. Unfortunately, that idea got exploited in a
> perverse way, I suspect mainly by former Governor Tim Kaine. He's the chief
> perp in this story (with plenty of bipartisan complicity, mind you), and he
> had the president's ear at the time. In any case, the president got
> snookered into making a fake, bifurcated national monument, with the heart
> of the historic landscape consigned to some degree of development. The
> actual degree is being kept vague, which is why the Pilot stipulated
> against
> "development--any development."
>
> The only intervention I can now imagine (unless someone gets to Mrs. Obama,
> or something) could come via an unlikely awakening of the oblivious, lazy,
> press-release-believing national media.
>
> (Energetic public attention by a Ken Burns, an Oprah Winfrey or nationally
> prominent historians would also have a chance--though Adam Goodheart, Ed
> Ayers and Douglas Brinkley have all accepted the fake, bifurcated national
> monument, in each case after talking to me and others, and in each case
> astonishing me. Jurretta might remember that I still owe her that whole
> story.)
>
> So here's my idea for a deus ex machina: Fort Monroe needs letters to the
> editor, and the like, during the coming national focus on the
> sesquicentennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. The letters could say
> lots of good things, but some might look something like what you see below
> the dashed line. The idea is to summon national accountability, and maybe
> some shaming, for the very people who tried to fool Virginia and the
> country
> with the Big Lie.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steven T. Corneliussen
> - - - - - - - -
> ONE POSSIBLE LETTER TO THE EDITOR (OR FACEBOOK POSTING, OR WHATEVER):
>
> Given the importance of the proclamation, and given that enterprising Black
> self-emancipators set into motion the politics that led to it, why is there
> so little attention to the controversy over post-Army Fort Monroe in
> Tidewater Virginia?
>
> Along with the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot
> (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe), people there are
> demanding unification of the split national monument/park that the
> president
> established in 2011.
>
> The problem, as seen at a glance in the illustration at
> http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/, is that the bifurcation sacrifices
> to developers the sense-of-place-defining center of the historic landscape,
> which was the first landing place of the first captive Africans a
> quarter-millennium before the self-emancipation movement blossomed there in
> 1861.
>
> Would we ever allow condos on a Monticello hillside? Why is the country
> giving Virginia's developer-dominated politicians a free pass on Fort
> Monroe?
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:52:31 -0500
> From: Terry Meyers <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Tomahund Plantation
>
> This is intriguing -- it's not a planation I'd heard of and
> doesn't seem to
> figure in such an account of James River Plantations as that in Tyler's
> Cradle
> of the Republic, but photographs of it do show up through Google.
>
> http://www.shorpy.com/node/13129?size=_original#caption
>
> Could it have been associated with Sandy Point? If so, these accounts of
> Sandy
> Point might offer some indirect evidence about it:
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q=Tomahund&f=false
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA343#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA485#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Ronald Seagrave wrote:
>
> > Anyone with data on Tomahund Plantation on the north side of the James
> River...
> >
> > Ron Seagrave
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Terry L.. Meyers, Chancellor Professor of English, College of William and
> Mary,
> Williamsburg Virginia 23187 757-221-3932
>
> http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/tlmeye/
>
> http://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Have we got a college? Have we got a football team?....Well, we
> can't
> afford both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.
>
> --Groucho Marx, in
> "Horse Feathers."
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:23:16 -0500
> From: Melinda Skinner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> Not everybody believed that slaves were chattel. There were plenty of
> people--
> in both the north and the south-- who recognized the evil of slavery and
> spoke
> out about it. Even some southerners worked actively to end it. This talk
> of
> "objectivity" in the context of the time is a red herring.
>
> Sent from Melinda's
> iPad
>
> On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:57 AM, Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves
> were
> chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their
> owners was
> little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact
> required under the statute of federal marshalls.
> >
> > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> >> From: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture of
> African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and
> Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence
> that
> Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
> regard.
> >>
> >> Gregg Kimball
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >>
> >> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context
> of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> >>
> >> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> >> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> >> 386.445.9156
> >> 888.557.3686 FAX
> >>
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> **********************************************************
> >> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> >> ********************************************************
> >>
> >>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> >>> From: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>
> >>> I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> check it
> and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks
> in PA
> on their way to Gettysburg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________
> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >>
> >> ______________________________________
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >>
> >> ______________________________________
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
> instructions at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> >
> > ______________________________________
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions
> at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:33:11 -0500
> From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> Well let's recall that black slavery originated in Africa hundreds of years
> before the Euopeans came on the scene.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN
> INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
> DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR
> USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
> DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
> THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land."
> According to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and
> horses.
> Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows,
> pigs,
> and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the
> Library
> of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small
> sampling.
> >
> > Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W.
> Graves:
> Died from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife.
> >
> > Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe,
> unmerciful and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner,
> William T.
> Fletcher.
> >
> > Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the
> day of
> her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as
> punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While
> working
> over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and
> whipping"
> and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and
> fall
> were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on
> the part
> of her master."
> >
> > Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave
> belonging
> to Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William
> Tuggle of
> Louisa County.
> >
> > Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds
> inflicted upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W.
> Pettijohn.
> Said dogs were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn.
> >
> > Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel
> treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and
> administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention
> of
> killing Rose.
> >
> > Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave
> owned by
> Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from
> a cow
> hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis'
> overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered
> detailed
> testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's
> cries for
> mercy and did nothing.
> >
> > Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave
> owned by
> Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired
> for the
> year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem
> examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ...
> "jury
> concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a
> number of
> stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue
> quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and
> exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder."
> >
> > Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and
> folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve
> from
> criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who
> promoted
> the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society.
> >
> > Greg Crawford
> > Library of Virginia
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> >
> > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United
> States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves
> were
> chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their
> owners was
> little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact
> required under the statute of federal marshalls.
> >
> > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when
> discussing
> slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of
> objectivity.
> >
> > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> > 386.445.9156
> > 888.557.3686 FAX
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > **********************************************************
> > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE
> SENDER OF
> THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > ********************************************************
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The
> Capture
> of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein
> and
> Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence
> that
> Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this
> regard.
> > >
> > > Gregg Kimball
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
> > >
> > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the
> context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?
> > >
> > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA
> > > 32137
> > > 386.445.9156
> > > 888.557.3686 FAX
> > >
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > **********************************************************
> > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT
> MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE
> PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
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> SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> > > ********************************************************
> > >
> > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can
> > > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves
> > > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________
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> > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> > >
> > > ______________________________________
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> > >
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> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:46:25 -0500
> From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
>
> I don't try and rehash history by today's standards, or wish I could get
> in a
> time machine and go back save the world from its wicked past. It is what
> it is
> and was the result of the times past as they were. As a Christian, I know
> all
> that has come to pass is God's will and has meaning that either has been
> shown
> or will be shown in His time. I do believe that the War of Northern
> Invasion
> was God's price for the wickedness of black enslavement by a Christian
> country
> that had lost its way and sailed far from the shore. To me, that is the
> lesson
> to be learned from the black slavery chapter of our American history and
> needs
> to be kept in mind today as we sail once again far for the shore.
>
> JDS
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER
> 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH
> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN
> INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM
> DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR
> USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE
> DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR
> SYSTEM.
> THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
> > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello"
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > > From: Jeff Southmayd
> > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land
> > > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full
> effect.
> > > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning
> > > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or
> > > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal
> > > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills
> > > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get
> > > to some level of objectivity.
> >
> > Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in
> > antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of
> that
> > day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly
> > imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral
> filth
> > of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is
> > often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those
> who
> > dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use
> the
> > Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't
> citizens
> > and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we
> get
> > from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not
> to
> > take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped
> > thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the
> > mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message.
> >
> > ______________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207)
> **************************************************************
>
>
>
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