Agreed. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bob Shriner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Please continue this endless argument someplace else. It has > degenerated into repetitious personal attacks that are unprofessional, > unseemly, unpersuasive, and counter-productive. It has ceased to > accomplish anything other than annoy the audience. > > > > > > > > ******************************* > Robert D. Shriner ([log in to unmask]) > Warrenton, VA -- Phone:703-679-8148 > ******************************* > Blessed are the flexible, for they shall > not get bent out of shape > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-HIST automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> > To: VA-HIST <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:02 am > Subject: VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207) > > > There are 14 messages totaling 1383 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. "The Monster of Monticello" (8) > 2. 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe (2) > 3. Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers? > 4. Dred Scott decision > 5. To help Fort Monroe > 6. Tomahund Plantation > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:57:18 -0500 > From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) > at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were > chattel > property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was > little > more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required > under the statute of federal marshalls. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN > INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM > DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR > USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE > DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture of > African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and > Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence > that > Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this > regard. > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context > of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > check it > and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks > in PA > on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:28:51 +0000 > From: "Kimball, Gregg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > You wrote: "His troops individually may have done any number of things > within > the context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee?" My response > and > the article cited are directly to that point. If you actually have > something to > say on the subject at hand, I'm all ears. > > The Fugitive Slave Act spells out the procedure for the recovery of human > property. How was that procedure followed in the case of Lee's Army during > the > Gettysburg Campaign? What evidence was proffered that the people taken > were in > fact the property of anyone? What slaveholder was making such claim? > > Gregg Kimball > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) > at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were > chattel > property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was > little > more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required > under the statute of federal marshalls. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN > INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM > DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR > USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE > DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture of > African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and > Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence > that > Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this > regard. > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context > of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > check it > and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks > in PA > on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500 > From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > From: Jeff Southmayd > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land > > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. > > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning > > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or > > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal > > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills > > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get > > to some level of objectivity. > > Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in > antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of > that > day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly > imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral filth > of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is > often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those who > dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use the > Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't > citizens > and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we > get > from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not to > take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped > thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the > mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message. > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:55:59 -0600 > From: John Philip Adams <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held > for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state. > JPADAMS > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:57 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves > were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their > owners was little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, > and > in fact required under the statute of federal marshal's. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC neutralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER > OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM > YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture > of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein > and Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written > evidence that Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was > doing in this regard. > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > > 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER > OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM > YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000 > From: "Crawford, Greg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land." > According > to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and horses. > Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, > pigs, > and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the > Library > of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small > sampling. > > Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. Graves: > Died > from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife. > > Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe, > unmerciful > and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, William T. > Fletcher. > > Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the day > of > her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as > punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While > working > over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and > whipping" > and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and > fall > were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on > the part > of her master." > > Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave > belonging to > Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William Tuggle > of > Louisa County. > > Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds > inflicted > upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. Pettijohn. Said > dogs > were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn. > > Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel > treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and > administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention > of > killing Rose. > > Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave > owned by > Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from > a cow > hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis' > overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered > detailed > testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's > cries for > mercy and did nothing. > > Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave > owned by > Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired > for the > year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem > examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... > "jury > concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a > number of > stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue > quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and > exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder." > > Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and > folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve > from > criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who > promoted > the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society. > > Greg Crawford > Library of Virginia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) > at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves were > chattel > property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their owners was > little > more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact required > under the statute of federal marshalls. > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN > INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM > DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR > USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE > DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture of > African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and > Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence > that > Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this > regard. > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context > of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > > 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:18:56 -0000 > From: Walter Waddell <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe > > > http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily > > ------------------------------- > "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, satire, > comments, and commentary that come into existence from the events of our > times and from the perception thereof; land on this machine; and, that are > passed on for an independent evaluation by the various recipients of whom > have had the "un-luck" to have generally and generously revealed their > email > address. > > "Found On The Internet" is not an original work from this machine; may have > been edited to remove certain blatant elements of derision; does not > necessarily reflect an endorsement, approval, or disapproval of its > content; > and, is not to be considered as valid in truth and substance; i. e. taken > prima facie. > > "Found On The Internet" relies on the acumen of its recipients to be of > sufficient mental balance to absorb the content with calm and composure; > and, to appreciate its sole purpose is to "gift you of what's out there". > "Found On The Internet" heartily encourages and frequently uses the > extremely efficient and effective "delete" function. > > All of this post is formed from philosophical opinion or information for > purposes of sharing intellect and ideas leading to the formation of > rational > policies that promote the physical, economic, or social well being and > security of the U.S.; and, in no way are meant to incite illegal acts or > impart threats to others of any station. All of this disclaimer is deemed > to > be necessary for inclusion owing to the absurdity of the times and the > popularity of its discord. > > We all want the same things in life: Trouble comes; we all want them on our > own terms." > > ----------------------------------------- > > ? > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:59:50 +0000 > From: "Hardwick, Kevin - hardwikr" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Was Lee legally responsible for the actions of his soldiers? > > Mr. Southmayd has suggested that General Lee was not legally responsible > for the > actions of his soldiers. This turns out to be an interesting claim. At > first > glance, the claim is obviously in error, since under military law, "Command > Responsibility" extends up the military chain of command to all officers > aware > of infractions. By this reasoning, if the actions of Lee's soldiers were > criminal, Lee bears clear legal responsibility for them. > > However, the legal doctrine of Command Responsibility was not fully > articulated > until 1907, in the Hague conventions of that year. An important earlier > antecedent was the "Lieber Code" of 1863, established by President Lincoln > in > response to the decisions of Confederate authorities to treat captured > black > soldiers radically differently from white, and to re-enslave (or just > enslave) > captured blacks. The Lieber code explicitly forbade the killing of > prisoners of > war, and established ethical standards for treatment of civilian > populations. > In the final years of the war, the Code provided the legal basis for > prosecutions of southern soldiers for what we would not call "war crimes." > > But did the Lieber Code extend to Lee and his soldiers? Pretty clearly, > northern civilian and military officers serving as judges believed that it > did, > since they successfully prosecuted southern soldiers for violating them. > And of > course, if it did, then pretty clearly Lee bears both moral and legal > responsibility for those actions by his soldiers which violated the Code. > Here, > the issue gets mixed up in the question of the legality of secession. I > find > Lincoln's constitutional argument--the man was, after all, a very fine > lawyer--that unilateral secession is illegal and unconstitutional to be > compelling. If that is so, then the law of 1863 did extend to Lee and his > soldiers, and Lee is thus both morally and legally accountable. > > Our larger conversation has largely turned on moral arguments, and Mr. > Southmayd > is correct to remind us that law and morality are not always the same > thing. > However, on closer inspection, in this instance they are quite close. > General > Lee could properly have been held legally accountable for the crimes of his > soldiers. That he was not is a reflection of the prudential restraint of > Northern authorities, but not on Lee's moral and legal culpability. > > All best wishes, > Kevin > ___________________________ > Kevin R. Hardwick > Associate Professor > Department of History, MSC 8001 > James Madison University > Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807 > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:19:02 -0500 > From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Dred Scott decision > > Mr. Adams, > > The Dred Scott decisions was tried and handed down in St. Louis, Missouri. > A > "nasty slave holding state." The old court house there is now an > African-American history museum. > > Craig Kilby > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:55 AM, John Philip Adams wrote: > > > You need to cite Dred Scott. It was a court in a non slave area that held > > for Scott's owner, not some nasty slave holding state. > > JPADAMS > > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:32:25 -0500 > From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: 12141618Z12 Found On The Internet - Fort Monroe > > I don't understand the series of numbers in the subject line, and I don't > understand the paragraphs about "Found on the Internet," but I can ask that > if anybody reads the cited Virginian-Pilot article--a decent effort by a > newcomer reporter who is naturally short on context--she or he should > please > also read all three of the online comments that I posted beneath it. I do > not recommend, however, even bothering with the article at all. Thanks. > Steve Corneliussen > > > From: Walter Waddell Subject: [VA-HIST] 12141618Z12 Found On The > > Internet - Fort Monroe > > > > http://hamptonroads.com/2012/12/plans-fort-monroe-all-come-short-cash-0?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily > > > "Found On The Internet" is an assortment of articles, jokes, gags, > satire, > > comments, and commentary ... > > [snip] > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:35:24 -0500 > From: Steve Corneliussen <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: To help Fort Monroe > > > From: Melinda Skinner > > This is very sad to hear. I had believed the "big lie." > - - - - > > From: Jurretta J. Heckscher > > I have not yet had a chance to read the report, but I wonder if you could > > refresh our memories about whom to contact to register our disagreement > > with the present course of action? Thanks. > - - - - > > Thanks. You can write to Virginia's leaders, but they're hopeless. So I > have > another suggestion. > > But first: It's important to reiterate that Virginia's leaders did engineer > a national monument (i.e., a national park by presidential decree). > However, > they split it bizarrely to privilege developers, as seen in a glance at > the > photo-plus-map illustration at http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/. The > Big Lie, accepted unskeptically by national media, is that all of Fort > Monroe became nationally stewarded. > > Now, it's fine to omit the "development area" that's shown in the cited > illustration, but not to omit the sense-of-place-defining bayfront. The > Norfolk Virginian-Pilot declares that that crucial land "should be > permanently set aside as open space and added to the park as soon as > possible." The editors declare that protecting it “from development--any > development--is critical to securing" Fort Monroe's integrity, lest the > "value as a historic site, a natural resource and tourist attraction...be > degraded." > > Please note that word "degraded." In fact, please quote it from the Pilot's > April editorial (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe) if > you write to anyone. I'm just some science writer in Poquoson. They're > Tidewater's leading daily. (But I do hope you cite my > http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/ with its key illustration.) > > So what can people do? > > It looks increasingly like we need a deus ex machina, which is what I said > in an op-ed nearly two years ago. (It's at > > http://articles.dailypress.com/2011-01-15/news/dp-news-oped-corneliussen-0116-20110115_1_fort-monroe-authority-national-treasure-91st-district > > and it's peppered with ads.) I recommended the Antiquities Act and > intervention by the president to avoid what I called, and still call, an > American cultural disaster. Unfortunately, that idea got exploited in a > perverse way, I suspect mainly by former Governor Tim Kaine. He's the chief > perp in this story (with plenty of bipartisan complicity, mind you), and he > had the president's ear at the time. In any case, the president got > snookered into making a fake, bifurcated national monument, with the heart > of the historic landscape consigned to some degree of development. The > actual degree is being kept vague, which is why the Pilot stipulated > against > "development--any development." > > The only intervention I can now imagine (unless someone gets to Mrs. Obama, > or something) could come via an unlikely awakening of the oblivious, lazy, > press-release-believing national media. > > (Energetic public attention by a Ken Burns, an Oprah Winfrey or nationally > prominent historians would also have a chance--though Adam Goodheart, Ed > Ayers and Douglas Brinkley have all accepted the fake, bifurcated national > monument, in each case after talking to me and others, and in each case > astonishing me. Jurretta might remember that I still owe her that whole > story.) > > So here's my idea for a deus ex machina: Fort Monroe needs letters to the > editor, and the like, during the coming national focus on the > sesquicentennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. The letters could say > lots of good things, but some might look something like what you see below > the dashed line. The idea is to summon national accountability, and maybe > some shaming, for the very people who tried to fool Virginia and the > country > with the Big Lie. > > Thanks. > > Steven T. Corneliussen > - - - - - - - - > ONE POSSIBLE LETTER TO THE EDITOR (OR FACEBOOK POSTING, OR WHATEVER): > > Given the importance of the proclamation, and given that enterprising Black > self-emancipators set into motion the politics that led to it, why is there > so little attention to the controversy over post-Army Fort Monroe in > Tidewater Virginia? > > Along with the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot > (http://hamptonroads.com/2012/04/next-step-fort-monroe), people there are > demanding unification of the split national monument/park that the > president > established in 2011. > > The problem, as seen at a glance in the illustration at > http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/, is that the bifurcation sacrifices > to developers the sense-of-place-defining center of the historic landscape, > which was the first landing place of the first captive Africans a > quarter-millennium before the self-emancipation movement blossomed there in > 1861. > > Would we ever allow condos on a Monticello hillside? Why is the country > giving Virginia's developer-dominated politicians a free pass on Fort > Monroe? > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:52:31 -0500 > From: Terry Meyers <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Tomahund Plantation > > This is intriguing -- it's not a planation I'd heard of and > doesn't seem to > figure in such an account of James River Plantations as that in Tyler's > Cradle > of the Republic, but photographs of it do show up through Google. > > http://www.shorpy.com/node/13129?size=_original#caption > > Could it have been associated with Sandy Point? If so, these accounts of > Sandy > Point might offer some indirect evidence about it: > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q=Tomahund&f=false > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA343#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=4GytG01theQC&lpg=PA215&ots=34X3NSpggn&dq=Tomahund&pg=PA485#v=onepage&q=Nicol&f=false > > > On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Ronald Seagrave wrote: > > > Anyone with data on Tomahund Plantation on the north side of the James > River... > > > > Ron Seagrave > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Terry L.. Meyers, Chancellor Professor of English, College of William and > Mary, > Williamsburg Virginia 23187 757-221-3932 > > http://wmpeople.wm.edu/site/page/tlmeye/ > > http://www.ecologyfund.com/ecology/_ecology.html > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Have we got a college? Have we got a football team?....Well, we > can't > afford both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college. > > --Groucho Marx, in > "Horse Feathers." > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:23:16 -0500 > From: Melinda Skinner <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > Not everybody believed that slaves were chattel. There were plenty of > people-- > in both the north and the south-- who recognized the evil of slavery and > spoke > out about it. Even some southerners worked actively to end it. This talk > of > "objectivity" in the context of the time is a red herring. > > Sent from Melinda's > iPad > > On Dec 14, 2012, at 6:57 AM, Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves > were > chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their > owners was > little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact > required under the statute of federal marshalls. > > > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > >> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > >> From: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> > >> Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture of > African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein and > Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence > that > Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this > regard. > >> > >> Gregg Kimball > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > >> > >> His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context > of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > >> > >> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > >> PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > >> 386.445.9156 > >> 888.557.3686 FAX > >> > >> [log in to unmask] > >> ********************************************************** > >> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > >> ******************************************************** > >> > >>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > >>> From: [log in to unmask] > >>> Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> > >>> I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > check it > and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves and free blacks > in PA > on their way to Gettysburg > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________________ > >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > >> > >> ______________________________________ > >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > >> > >> ______________________________________ > >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:33:11 -0500 > From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > Well let's recall that black slavery originated in Africa hundreds of years > before the Euopeans came on the scene. > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN > INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM > DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR > USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE > DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:04:38 +0000 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > You are correct in saying that the slavery was the "law of the land." > According to the Law, slaves were on the same level as cows, pigs, and > horses. > Consequently, the law permitted slaveowners to treat their slaves as cows, > pigs, > and horses. The following examples come from court records found at the > Library > of Virginia called coroners' inquisitions. These are just very small > sampling. > > > > Madison County: 1847 August 11, Death of Sarah the slave of Asa W. > Graves: > Died from being whipped to death by Benjamin Andison and his wife. > > > > Goochland County: 1824 January 19, Death of Polima: Died from severe, > unmerciful and inhuman treatment and wounds inflicted by her owner, > William T. > Fletcher. > > > > Frederick County: 1833 Sept. 19, Death of Lucy (slave): Earlier on the > day of > her death, Lucy had been whipped, mostly about the thighs, by her master as > punishment for stealing some "trifling article" from a neighbor. While > working > over the fire she fainted from "exertion or sickness from the fire and > whipping" > and struck her head on the hearth. It was determined that the whipping and > fall > were the cause of her death but that there was "no intention to kill on > the part > of her master." > > > > Louisa County: 1786 Feb. 10, Death of Jeny (a slave): Jeny, a slave > belonging > to Col. Richard James, died from the whipping given to her by William > Tuggle of > Louisa County. > > > > Lynchburg: 1834 Nov. 18, Death of Rice Parker: Died of various wounds > inflicted upon the body, thighs, and legs by the dogs of George W. > Pettijohn. > Said dogs were willfully and maliciously set upon said Parker by Pettijohn. > > > > Powhatan County: 1805 October 17, Death of Rose, a slave: Died from cruel > treatment by her owner's wife, Sarah Tucker. Tucker had Rose beaten and > administered medicine to her improperly and maliciously with the intention > of > killing Rose. > > > > Brunswick County: 1812 Nov. 1, Death of Jenny (slave): Jenny, a slave > owned by > Benjamin Lewis of Brunswick County, died from repeated blows received from > a cow > hide whip administered feloniously by Benjamin Taylor. Taylor was Lewis' > overseer. The inquisition includes depositions of witnesses who offered > detailed > testimony concerning Jenny's death. One witness could hear the slave's > cries for > mercy and did nothing. > > > > Petersburg: 1843 June 21, Death of Reuben (slave): Reuben was a slave > owned by > Mary Massenburg. Severely whipped by John Minetree, to whom he was hired > for the > year. His body was marked with many blows of the cowhide. Upon post-mortem > examination, "cowhide was not considered sufficient to cause death" ... > "jury > concurs the severity of the whipping in giving the deceased so great a > number of > stripes," but believed "he came to his death from other causes ... undue > quantity of cold water in his stomach, while under excessive heat and > exhaustion." John Minetree "discharged from all charges of murder." > > > > Slavery was the law of the land and it was consistent with the mores and > folkways of Jefferson's day and time; but, those facts should not absolve > from > criticism those who wrote the laws establishing slavery nor those who > promoted > the mores and folkways that made slavery acceptable by society. > > > > Greg Crawford > > Library of Virginia > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:57 AM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land (United > States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full effect. Slaves > were > chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning them to their > owners was > little more than returning a stray horse or cow to its owner, and in fact > required under the statute of federal marshalls. > > > > I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills when > discussing > slavery during this period in our history to try to get to some level of > objectivity. > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > > 386.445.9156 > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > [log in to unmask] > > ********************************************************** > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > ******************************************************** > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:42:16 +0000 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > Perhaps you should read David G. Smith, "Race and Retaliation: The > Capture > of African Americans During the Gettysburg Campaign" in Peter Wallenstein > and > Bertram Wyatt-Brown, eds., Virginia's Civil War. There is written evidence > that > Confederate commanders were fully aware of what the army was doing in this > regard. > > > > > > Gregg Kimball > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd > > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:20 PM > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > > > His troops individually may have done any number of things within the > context of war, but what does that have to do with Lee? > > > > > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA > > > 32137 > > > 386.445.9156 > > > 888.557.3686 FAX > > > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > ********************************************************** > > > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT > MAY > CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE > PROTECTED > FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE > SENDER OF > THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. THANK YOU. > > > ******************************************************** > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:07:26 -0800 > > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > I do not believe he freed all his slaves, but i am not where i can > > > > check it and give u a citation. His troops hinted fugitive slaves > > > > and free blacks in PA on their way to Gettysburg > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > > > ______________________________________ > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:46:25 -0500 > From: Jeff Southmayd <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > I don't try and rehash history by today's standards, or wish I could get > in a > time machine and go back save the world from its wicked past. It is what > it is > and was the result of the times past as they were. As a Christian, I know > all > that has come to pass is God's will and has meaning that either has been > shown > or will be shown in His time. I do believe that the War of Northern > Invasion > was God's price for the wickedness of black enslavement by a Christian > country > that had lost its way and sailed far from the shore. To me, that is the > lesson > to be learned from the black slavery chapter of our American history and > needs > to be kept in mind today as we sail once again far for the shore. > > JDS > > SOUTHMAYD & MILLER > 4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH > PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137 > 386.445.9156 > 888.557.3686 FAX > > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************** > THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY > CONTAIN > INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED FROM > DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ, > COPY, OR > USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER OF THE > DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM YOUR > SYSTEM. > THANK YOU. > ******************************************************** > > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:40:54 -0500 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "The Monster of Monticello" > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > From: Jeff Southmayd > > > As you are undoubtedly aware, Dred Scott was the law of the land > > > (United States) at that point and the Fugitive Slave Law in full > effect. > > > Slaves were chattel property and from a legal standpoint returning > > > them to their owners was little more than returning a stray horse or > > > cow to its owner, and in fact required under the statute of federal > > > marshalls. I think some may need to take a couple PC nuetralizing pills > > > when discussing slavery during this period in our history to try to get > > > to some level of objectivity. > > > > Diehard southern defenders of the indefensible regularly seek shelter in > > antebellum law, evading admitting that even within the understanding of > that > > day, the laws of nature and of nature's god were clearly if highly > > imperfectly recognized, and that so were the grotesqueness and moral > filth > > of the manmade laws of slavery. The charge of "political correctness" is > > often a dodge used by evaders of common decency--for example, by those > who > > dehumanize fellow Americans who were enslaved. (Sometimes they also use > the > > Catch-22 of the filthy "law" to argue that those countrymen weren't > citizens > > and so weren't even Americans. Sheesh.) I've always thought that what we > get > > from Mr. Southmayd is mainly button-pushing, and that it's important not > to > > take it seriously. But the problem with that is that this kind of warped > > thinking is also contributing, indirectly but importantly, to the > > mishandling of Fort Monroe, about which more in another message. > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ------------------------------ > > End of VA-HIST Digest - 13 Dec 2012 to 14 Dec 2012 (#2012-207) > ************************************************************** > > > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html