Steve, Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) provides the "male Y chromosome donor" with a "tool" that they call the "Tip Report." That "calculation" (based on an algorithm that was developed by FTDNA) can be run to compare any two "closely matching donors" to see what the "odds"/"percentages" are that the two men in question share a "common male ancestor with the same surname" at various "generations back." On the Davidson/Davison/Davisson DNA testing project website, we use the "rule of thumb" that any two donors being compared should have around 80% or better "odds" at "12 generations back," and also about 90% "odds" or better at "16 generations back," of sharing a common ancestor before we typically consider those two male DNA donors to be members of the same family. Note: If we believe that all of us "trace back" to "two original people" (commonly called Adam and Eve), then we are ALL related. It is just a matter of "how far back is too far" to be of any real value to genealogy. Luckily, DNA "markers" mutate over time. If the "markers" did not mutate, then I presume that all humans might have the same DNA, and it would be of no value to genealogy. Because of the mutations, however, trying to find "the most recent common male ancestor with the same surname" when that common ancestor lived 800-1,000 years ago (or even further back in time) becomes unreliable when using DNA. Even where there was, in fact, a "most recent common male ancestor with the same surname" between the two men in question 1,000+ years ago, there would probably be so many markers that would not match after all of that time (thanks to mutations), that the DNA would not reflect the "relationship." DNA works great, however, when trying to find your ancestors who lived, for example, in the 1500s-1900s. The Y chromosome "markers" are comprised of both "slow/seldom mutators" and "fast/frequent mutators." The latter often do not match between two donors who share an ancestor as recently as just a couple of genearations ago....so that is why "known close relatives" may have only 35 out of 37 markers that match, for example (where the two makers that do not match are "fast/frequent mutators"....such mutations are actually normal and expected). The "slow/seldom mutators," however, typically would be the same between any two donors whose common ancestor lived within the last 100-500 years or so. The above Tip Report at FTDNA takes all of this into consideration when determining the "odds" mentioned above. Without the Tip Report, or without input from a person who is truly knowledgable in the science of DNA, comparing the results between two or more people can be tough to do. Most DNA testing companies, however, as well as some of the "stand-alone" websites that are devoted to a particular surname DNA study, have people who can "make sense of it all" for their donors. Note: The above Tip Report is not "perfect," and the science of DNA seems to evolve with each passing year. As an example, I have one "matching donor" (out of several "matches") where the typical/standard "FTDNA computer analysis" for that one donor shows that there is the equivalent of five markers that do not match between us (called a "Genetic Distance" ("GD") of 5). Despite that, when analyzed more closely by an expert (versus by just the "standard computer analysis"), the true "equivalent GD" is actually closer to 1 (this is a somewhat unusual case, and I will not attempt to get into the details here). FTDNA is aware of these occasional anomalies, and I understand that they plan to update some of their standard techniques (as are, no doubt, many of the other DNA testing companies). DNA testing is still a tremendous tool for genealogy, and I would not take anything for the Y chromosome DNA test results for me and for my mother's male cousin, as provided by FTDNA. Both of those DNA tests provided me with information that was simply not available through "conventional documentation research" alone. Bill Davidson To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html