To which I only wish to reply, and with no irony intended . . . Amen :) All best, Kevin ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:08:15 -0400 >From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: New Presidential Descendant Claimant >To: [log in to unmask] > >Herbert is correct in his remarks about the possibility. And Sandy is >certainly a red-head nickname. And his final point about the DNA >testing is the one that all should take away from this discussion. >Without additional testing, all the analysis of existing and known >documents will not settle the issue. > >Science rules, OK. > >Lyle Browning, RPA > > >On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Anne Pemberton wrote: > >> Herb, >> >> You are committing the sin that you accuse others of ... lots of >> maybes in your remark, none of which you can prove. You can't even >> prove that there was a red-headed slave on the property. A name >> doesn't establish any fact whatsoever. You seem anxious to jump on >> almost anything that could be made into an excuse for Jefferson's >> paternity. >> >> Anne >> >> Anne Pemberton >> [log in to unmask] >> http://www.erols.com/apembert >> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert Barger" <[log in to unmask] >> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:15 AM >> Subject: Re: New Presidential Descendant Claimant >> >> >> Mr Corneliussen is absolutely correct that it is "possible" that a >> slave >> inherited from Peter Jefferson (Thomas Jefferson's father) could have >> carried the Jefferson DNA from past Jefferson males. This slave's >> name was >> "SANDY", a name that denotes reddish hair, and this man could have >> fathered >> a male heir who "may" have been a father to some of Sally's >> children. Please >> remember that only ONE Hemings family member was DNA tested. >> >> Herb Barger >> Jefferson Family Historian >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven T. Corneliussen >> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:32 AM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] New Presidential Descendant Claimant >> >> And please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting something related from >> Kevin >> Hardwick's Oct. 12 revised list of the things that we can "say about >> Sally >> Hemings that no one is likely to dispute." Item 5 on that revised list >> says that the "father of one of [SH's] children -- Eston Hemings -- >> was >> descended from Thomas Jefferson's paternal grandfather; that is to >> say, we >> can narrow the list of possible fathers for this child to Thomas >> Jefferson, TJ's brother, his paternal uncles, and his paternal >> cousins." >> >> It seems to me that, at a minimum, this phrasing fails to make >> completely >> clear what is known about the radius of the circle of paternity >> candidates. That complete clarity is important because many >> participants >> in Hemings-TJ discussions, and almost all participants in the media, >> presume that the circle includes only Jeffersons who were routinely >> acknowledged at the time as members of the extended Jefferson >> family. In >> my view it's important to stipulate specifically the possibility of >> paternity by some unknown carrier of the Jefferson DNA marker within >> the >> enslaved population. We know that the DNA marker crossed the race >> line. We >> do not know whether it crossed the race line in a generation earlier >> than >> the one that produced Eston Hemings. Now, this may well be an >> outlandish >> possibility in terms of the historical evidence. But because the DNA >> evidence says nothing whatsoever about it, as a matter of DNA >> science the >> circle of paternity candidates must actually be defined as wider >> than the >> circle of males in the known, acknowledged, extended Jefferson >> family. As >> a matter of DNA science, we simply do not know the radius of the >> circle of >> paternity candidates. (And yes, here I have repeated myself nearly >> verbatim, but in this case it seemed necessary.) >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > >______________________________________ >To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at >http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html Kevin R. Hardwick, Ph.D. Department of History James Madison University ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html