"Be polite to all, but intimate with few.” - Thomas Jefferson. How about the dozen or so who are driving this debate about Jefferson into the ground move the discussion OFF the Virginia History list serve discussion group - just send the emails to yourselves. Let's pick a NEW topic. How about Emancipation Day in Virginia - I know African Americans in Richmond celebrated this day on and off for a number of years after the Civil War -- check out this site: http://www.library.vcu.edu/jbc/speccoll/vbha/freedom.html Does anyone have evidence that this was celebrated in other cities in Virginia? Why did it die out? -- Ray B. VCU Libraries Herbert "the badger" Barger wrote: > Nancy (who should let it go), > > I must apologize if I "misread" you earlier remarks on "scum".....a > rereading of that sentence makes it clear that you are referring to some > who have differing thoughts and wordings in their remarks. Sorry! > > Herb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sunshine49 > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:36 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Jefferson's Overseer > > I certainly hope you are not implying that I think of TJ as "scum", > as I do not and never said I did. I said he was great OR scum, > depending on what view the particular person was pressing. I was only > pointing out [or trying to] the polar opposites the issue seems to > bring out in people. And it seems to be more a reflection of the > person doing the observing, than what any real story is about Mr. > Jefferson. But no, I do not think he is "scum." I think he was > basically a great man with human flaws, who was fortunate to be born > in a time when his talents were needed. If he had been born in, say, > 1932 he might have been a brilliant local eccentric, self-publishing > little tracts with his intellectual musings and buying 100 acres in > Arizona to experiment with crops and tinker around the homestead. And > that, barring concrete evidence, we should stop projecting our own > issues onto him. > > Nancy > > ------- > I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. > > --Daniel Boone > > > > On May 5, 2008, at 8:56 PM, Herbert Barger wrote: > > >> Nancy, >> >> You have a great handle on the issue and you state it well. The >> Jefferson-Hemings issue started as a James Callender Campaign Lie that >> was proved just that by DNA.....NO match between TJ and Tom Woodson. >> Fawn Brodie came along with her weird analysis and told the Eston >> relatives that why should they cling to the long held belief that >> their >> ancestor was "a Jefferson uncle", meaning Randolph Jefferson WHEN they >> could claim THOMAS himself and since then this is what we have. They >> even threw Fawn Brodie out of her LDS Church for degrading and >> painting >> their founder in a bad light.........just as a similar approach of TJ. >> But in the Jefferson case we have people WILLING to receive the >> UPGRADE >> in brothers to enhance their image, in my opinion. >> >> Your portrayal of Mr. Jefferson as "SCUM" pretty well enlightens your >> readers as to your thoughts and beliefs. >> >> Herb Barger >> Jefferson Family Historian >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sunshine49 >> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:02 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Jefferson's Overseer >> >> there were also white/ black marriages, or relationships, look at >> some of the runaway ads in the Virginia Gazette, a mixed couple >> thought to be passing as husband and wife, or a man and woman of each >> race ran off together. These weren't rapes. In Nov.1797 William >> Cardwell, who was white, married "Betty Brown, colored, of lawful >> age, Kitty Brown her mother" in Henrico County. So there would be >> some white genes in their descendants that were not the result of >> plantation rape. They got married, presumably they cared for each >> other, to defy convention of the times like they did. Is it some sort >> of "outrage identity" to think all white- black sex was the result of >> rape by masters on their slaves? It was a very complex subject; rent >> or buy "African Americans Lives" 1 & 2 and you'll see how complex it >> was. >> >> I'm wondering if this Mobius Strip of a topic will ever end, future >> historians reading these posts will wonder at all the time and brain >> cells put into arguing what are basically points of view. Mr. >> Jefferson was great, Mr. Jefferson was scum. He seems to be used here >> as a means of validating one's view of Colonial life. And since there >> is so little that is CONCRETE about this particular issue, it is easy >> to do, and the debate can continue forever. Personally, I feel that >> DNA shows that one of Ms. Hemmings' children was sired by "A" >> Jefferson male. The family says it was T. Jefferson's uncle. But we >> can discount DNA and family stories because some smear -mongering >> newspaperman and one census entry say otherwise. Mr. Jefferson owned >> slaves, therefore he had to have raped at least one of them. >> Repeatedly. That's nothing but surmise. It would not hold up in >> history or in court. I suspect for a lot of the Jefferson defenders, >> the surmise aspect of it is what rankles the most. People are passing >> very harsh judgement on a man and trashing him, with almost nothing >> in the way of proof. >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Nancy >> >> ------- >> I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. >> >> --Daniel Boone >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions >> at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > -- Ray Bonis Special Collections and Archives VCU Libraries 804-828-1108 ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html