But wouldn't you also agree that in the interim minority reports by highly-credentialed people on a key issue should be made a matter of record along with majority reports so that reviewers could see all the data found by the experts and their various opinions and conclusions? "People being people," academia I presume must not be totally free of various degrees "corruption" itself. For example, for an extreme case, see: http://www.mcrkba.org/Bellesiles.html Mark On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Stephan A. Schwartz < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Historical data, absent the discovery of some as yet unknown but > definitive documentation, will not get us to an answer. On that we should, > surely, all agree at this point. Only science will settle this and, based on > my reading of that literature, I believe it will, within the next 10-15 > years. Personally, I think it is a question we should put aside until some > new factor is introduced into the equation. > > -- Stephan > > > On 4 May 2008, at 09:03, DFM wrote: > > In a little book called Jefferson at Monticello. The private life of > > Thomas Jefferson, the author addresses the question of TJ and a slave-girl > > lover and he says that he often saw someone else, never Jefferson, leaving > > that slave's abode in the early morning. > > The author of this little book was Jefferson's overseer for many years > > and he saw a lot of what went on around the place. He does not say precisely > > who it was that he saw darting out of her room but he says that it was not > > Thomas Jefferson. > > It seems to me that just like there are those who refuse to believe that > > TJ fooled around with the slaves, there are those who refuse to consider > > that he did not. > > Deane Mills > > Yorktown, VA > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Wilson" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:37 AM > > Subject: Re: DNA In Jefferson-Hemings controversy > > > > > > Is it not possible that TJ had a secret sexual relationship with another > > (or > > others over the years?) rather than with apparently the relatively > > convenient SH? > > > > On the other hand, TJ was already among an extremely small percentage of > > humanity at one end of the Bell curve in certain human characteristics. > > He > > was not your run-of-the-mill ordinary guy. Could he not have also have > > been > > among those fewer numbers of men tending to be mostly sexually inactive > > in > > later life - whether for medical or other reasons? For example, > > although > > "people will be people" most Popes, especially recent ones, appear to > > have > > been people who were celibate - even though over the centuries not all > > have > > been found to be so - and even though maybe more than we know were not > > so. > > > > We may project certain characteristics upon the masses of humanity with > > some > > degree of accuracy, but when trying to say the same things about one man > > or > > one woman we run a much greater risk of inaccuracy. Some are willing to > > make such leaps - other are not. I believe the wiser choice is to not > > make > > such leaps. > > > > Of course some folks die before the answers ("truths") are known. Some > > of > > us may go that route before any new DNA methods or evidence "proves" > > which > > beliefs about TJ were correct. (I hate it when humans pass from the > > scene > > before knowing the answer "for sure" because it means that I may > > eventually > > be among them in things I'd really like to know - but "C'est la vie," > > eh?) > > > > Mark > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Stephan A. Schwartz < > > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > Herbert -- > > > > > > Thank you for this lengthy exegesis on this subject. Much of it I > > > knew, > > > but some I did not. Let me reduce my thinking to a parsimonious > > > essence. The > > > present day DNA data is highly suggestive but not despositive. > > > However, the > > > science of genetics is advancing now with a speed that is reminiscent > > > of > > > laser development — in the 1960s and 70s — when they had to publish > > > the time > > > and date the paper was submitted because there was a chance it had > > > been > > > super-ceded by the time it was through the peer-review and publication > > > cycle. There is much more we are going to learn from DNA inquiry. Of > > > that, I > > > think, we can be sure. There will be new and better tests yielding > > > clearer, > > > deeper insights. Who did what in the beginning of this approach, a > > > decade > > > from now will become a not terribly important part of the narrative, > > > except > > > as it reveals various prejudices of the day. We must be patient until > > > new > > > data emerges. This is like discussing a baseball game in the seventh > > > inning. > > > > > > One thing I do know. People do not live in a Tolstoian village like > > > Monticello without all of the people in the household having a > > > relationship, > > > and Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson had to have had one. Her status > > > as > > > his chambermaid assured that. > > > > > > So I guess it gets down to whether you think he would be capable of > > > such a > > > relationship? People today have sexual relationships all the time > > > with > > > individuals with whom they are far less involved than Jefferson was > > > with > > > Sally. And the same was true in the Elizabethan Age. Between 1558 and > > > 1603, > > > in the Country of Essex, which had approximately 40,000 adults, almost > > > 38 > > > per cent — 15,000 — were cited for sexual misbehavior. And it will be > > > true > > > 50 years from now. People are people, and I think Jefferson no > > > different. Do > > > you think he was a celibate? Was it coercive? By definition. But while > > > I can > > > see Jefferson as a man with secret sexual relationship, I cannot see > > > him as > > > a serial rapist, so some accommodation was reached. > > > > > > Does this make him evil. I don't think so. Thomas Jefferson, no less > > > that > > > the other Founders, with the exception of Franklin, was a man of his > > > time, > > > status, and culture. What has always amazed me about these > > > individuals, is > > > that they risked everything and, in the end, rose above who they were > > > to > > > craft what they bequeathed us. Their modernity and relevance, lies in > > > the > > > question they eternally pose: Would I, could I, do the same? > > > > > > -- Stephan > > > > > > > - - - s n i p - - - > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > > at > > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions > at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html