It's been on the Richmond Times Dispatch website, and the Hampton Roads one too, as well as on tv. Why is Virginia "still not for lovers"? Nancy ------- I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. --Daniel Boone On May 6, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Ray, Tom (LVA) wrote: > The front page of the print version of the Richmond Times Dispatch > today > reports the death of Mildred Jeter Loving. It is sad to note that her > passing is almost unfindable online. > > Mrs. Loving was an unsung American heroine who still came back to her > native Virginia after facing harassment, bigotry and just plain > stupidity. > > It is so ironic that the couple that broke miscegenation laws was > named > Loving. Ironic too that the most famous state campaign slogan in > the US, > "Virginia is for Lovers," is so far from the truth. It was not true in > Jefferson's day, was not true in the Loving's day, and still is not > true. > > If you read this far in this post I hope you will take a moment and > reflect on Mr. and Mrs. Loving and the legacy their lives have left > us. > > > Tom H. Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ray Bonis > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:51 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [VA-HIST] What would Jefferson think about this debate? > > "Be polite to all, but intimate with few." - Thomas Jefferson. > > How about the dozen or so who are driving this debate about Jefferson > into the ground move the discussion OFF the Virginia History list > serve > discussion group - just send the emails to yourselves. > > Let's pick a NEW topic. > > How about Emancipation Day in Virginia - I know African Americans in > Richmond celebrated this day on and off for a number of years after > the > Civil War -- check out this site: > > http://www.library.vcu.edu/jbc/speccoll/vbha/freedom.html > > Does anyone have evidence that this was celebrated in other cities in > Virginia? Why did it die out? > > -- Ray B. > VCU Libraries > > Herbert "the badger" Barger wrote: >> Nancy (who should let it go), >> >> I must apologize if I "misread" you earlier remarks on "scum".....a >> rereading of that sentence makes it clear that you are referring to >> some who have differing thoughts and wordings in their remarks. >> Sorry! >> >> Herb >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sunshine49 >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:36 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Jefferson's Overseer >> >> I certainly hope you are not implying that I think of TJ as >> "scum", as > >> I do not and never said I did. I said he was great OR scum, depending >> on what view the particular person was pressing. I was only pointing >> out [or trying to] the polar opposites the issue seems to bring >> out in > >> people. And it seems to be more a reflection of the person doing the >> observing, than what any real story is about Mr. >> Jefferson. But no, I do not think he is "scum." I think he was >> basically a great man with human flaws, who was fortunate to be born >> in a time when his talents were needed. If he had been born in, say, >> 1932 he might have been a brilliant local eccentric, self-publishing >> little tracts with his intellectual musings and buying 100 acres in >> Arizona to experiment with crops and tinker around the homestead. And >> that, barring concrete evidence, we should stop projecting our own >> issues onto him. >> >> Nancy >> >> ------- >> I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. >> >> --Daniel Boone >> >> >> >> On May 5, 2008, at 8:56 PM, Herbert Barger wrote: >> >> >>> Nancy, >>> >>> You have a great handle on the issue and you state it well. The >>> Jefferson-Hemings issue started as a James Callender Campaign Lie >>> that was proved just that by DNA.....NO match between TJ and Tom > Woodson. >>> Fawn Brodie came along with her weird analysis and told the Eston >>> relatives that why should they cling to the long held belief that >>> their ancestor was "a Jefferson uncle", meaning Randolph Jefferson >>> WHEN they could claim THOMAS himself and since then this is what we >>> have. They even threw Fawn Brodie out of her LDS Church for >>> degrading > >>> and painting their founder in a bad light.........just as a similar >>> approach of TJ. >>> But in the Jefferson case we have people WILLING to receive the >>> UPGRADE in brothers to enhance their image, in my opinion. >>> >>> Your portrayal of Mr. Jefferson as "SCUM" pretty well enlightens >>> your > >>> readers as to your thoughts and beliefs. >>> >>> Herb Barger >>> Jefferson Family Historian >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sunshine49 >>> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:02 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Jefferson's Overseer >>> >>> there were also white/ black marriages, or relationships, look at >>> some of the runaway ads in the Virginia Gazette, a mixed couple >>> thought to be passing as husband and wife, or a man and woman of >>> each > >>> race ran off together. These weren't rapes. In Nov.1797 William >>> Cardwell, who was white, married "Betty Brown, colored, of lawful >>> age, Kitty Brown her mother" in Henrico County. So there would be >>> some white genes in their descendants that were not the result of >>> plantation rape. They got married, presumably they cared for each >>> other, to defy convention of the times like they did. Is it some >>> sort > >>> of "outrage identity" to think all white- black sex was the >>> result of > >>> rape by masters on their slaves? It was a very complex subject; rent >>> or buy "African Americans Lives" 1 & 2 and you'll see how complex it >>> was. >>> >>> I'm wondering if this Mobius Strip of a topic will ever end, future >>> historians reading these posts will wonder at all the time and brain >>> cells put into arguing what are basically points of view. Mr. >>> Jefferson was great, Mr. Jefferson was scum. He seems to be used >>> here > >>> as a means of validating one's view of Colonial life. And since >>> there > >>> is so little that is CONCRETE about this particular issue, it is >>> easy > >>> to do, and the debate can continue forever. Personally, I feel that >>> DNA shows that one of Ms. Hemmings' children was sired by "A" >>> Jefferson male. The family says it was T. Jefferson's uncle. But we >>> can discount DNA and family stories because some smear -mongering >>> newspaperman and one census entry say otherwise. Mr. Jefferson owned >>> slaves, therefore he had to have raped at least one of them. >>> Repeatedly. That's nothing but surmise. It would not hold up in >>> history or in court. I suspect for a lot of the Jefferson defenders, >>> the surmise aspect of it is what rankles the most. People are >>> passing > >>> very harsh judgement on a man and trashing him, with almost nothing >>> in the way of proof. >>> >>> My 2 cents. >>> >>> Nancy >>> >>> ------- >>> I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. >>> >>> --Daniel Boone >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> > > > -- > Ray Bonis > Special Collections and Archives > VCU Libraries > 804-828-1108 > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html