Anne, Again you are confused in assigning my wife as being a descendant of Thomas Jefferson....she is not, and I believe I earlier explained that she was a FIRST COUSIN, six generations removed.....NOT a direct lineal descendant. Her DNA has nothing to do with this controversy. What is the LIE you refer to? I am keenly aware that exhuming a body to gain DNA must be considered with all respect, thus I am not "bugging" them to do it. Maybe in doing so would prove their point that Madison and Eston would have the same father...or NOT. Their choice.......I just report what has transpired in that area. TJ's DNA is represented by male in line descendants of Thomas Jefferson II (TJ's grandfather), and thus it is scientifically sufficient to represent Thomas and the scientific community recognizes this. Possibly I may (or may not) have discussed the William Hemings issue with Hemings family members. I recall on one occasion that I did (in the Omni hallway in Charlottesville at a Monticello Assn. annual meeting, discuss it with a Hemings spokesperson, Shay Banks-Young. She told me they would NEVER permit the access to William Hemings DNA and that they were "happy" with their oral family history. So be it........the ball is in their court! I am unable to answer your "arrogant ones" remark or your "entrenched aristocracy" remark. I don't have any knowledge of anyone in those categories. Let us stick to the facts of what we do and do not know and that is: NO proof exists of Thomas Jefferson fathering any slave child and he denied it to two of his cabinet members, Robert Smith, Sec. Of the Navy and Levi Lincoln, Sec. Of the Treasury. Herb Barger Jefferson Family Historian Herb, You say that it is your wife who is the descendent. Has her DNA been tested to be sure that is the case? Or is her claim just based on Oral History? Since she is not male, perhaps you will convince her to let her father/grandfather be dug up so you can assure me that she is a genuine descendent. Otherwise, you better stop telling that LIE! Seriously, Herb, it is a big deal to dig up one's ancestors to many people. Last time this argument ran on this list, someone suggested digging up TJ himself and getting a sample of his DNA for researce purposes, and the clamor was loud! How dare folks consider disturbing him in his grave! Yet, you seem to want to put that on the Hemings. If you sat down with the Hemings in a congenial atmosphere, why did you not bring up the subject of exhuming and testing William? Seems to me that the score, at present, on DNA testing is to affirm one oral history, and disprove another. The score is tied. One more remains. Are the odds in favor of the oral history, or do the odds favor the arrogrant ones? I noticed on the web page that the last "mision" of your young organization is to "defend" TJ's "integrity" against those who would not keep him on that pedestal. I guess that is what you are doing on this list. Sadly, you are making a stronger case in favor of the Hemings who you are making seem like the "good guys" against the entrenched aristocracy! Anne Anne Pemberton [log in to unmask] http://www.erols.com/apembert http://www.educationalsynthesis.org ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html