there were also white/ black marriages, or relationships, look at some of the runaway ads in the Virginia Gazette, a mixed couple thought to be passing as husband and wife, or a man and woman of each race ran off together. These weren't rapes. In Nov.1797 William Cardwell, who was white, married "Betty Brown, colored, of lawful age, Kitty Brown her mother" in Henrico County. So there would be some white genes in their descendants that were not the result of plantation rape. They got married, presumably they cared for each other, to defy convention of the times like they did. Is it some sort of "outrage identity" to think all white- black sex was the result of rape by masters on their slaves? It was a very complex subject; rent or buy "African Americans Lives" 1 & 2 and you'll see how complex it was. I'm wondering if this Mobius Strip of a topic will ever end, future historians reading these posts will wonder at all the time and brain cells put into arguing what are basically points of view. Mr. Jefferson was great, Mr. Jefferson was scum. He seems to be used here as a means of validating one's view of Colonial life. And since there is so little that is CONCRETE about this particular issue, it is easy to do, and the debate can continue forever. Personally, I feel that DNA shows that one of Ms. Hemmings' children was sired by "A" Jefferson male. The family says it was T. Jefferson's uncle. But we can discount DNA and family stories because some smear -mongering newspaperman and one census entry say otherwise. Mr. Jefferson owned slaves, therefore he had to have raped at least one of them. Repeatedly. That's nothing but surmise. It would not hold up in history or in court. I suspect for a lot of the Jefferson defenders, the surmise aspect of it is what rankles the most. People are passing very harsh judgement on a man and trashing him, with almost nothing in the way of proof. My 2 cents. Nancy ------- I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. --Daniel Boone ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html