Paul, I think you have made a very concise and accurate statement of the situation. I talked with Dumas Malone many years ago and Thomas Jefferson as an asexual being was clearly his perspective, just as he cast a soft fog around Jefferson's views on slavery. -- Stephan On 2 May 2008, at 09:28, Paul Finkelman wrote: > I think the problem is that most biographers of TJ before the 1990s > considered him a saint and wrote dishonest or misleading > biographies of > him. I detail a great deal of this in my book SLAVERY AND THE > FOUNDERS: > RACE AND lLIBERTY IN THE AGE OF JEFFERSON. Many of these > biographers > did say he was antislavery and wanted to free his slaves; Dumas Malone > vastly exaggerated his interest in freeing slaves through careful and > very misleading language. Thus, when modern scholars have come along > and questions this, they are attacked for "tearing down" Jefferson. He > was smart, a great writer, and was wonderful on things like religious > freedom; on slavery and race he was worse than almost every one of his > major contemporaries. And his personal life with Sally Hemings and > her > children -- his children (or his nieces and nephews) was very > problematic. Many of the people on this list just do not want to > think > about all this. > > Paul Finkelman > President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law > and Public Policy > Albany Law School > 80 New Scotland Avenue > Albany, New York 12208-3494 > > 518-445-3386 > [log in to unmask] >>>> [log in to unmask] 05/02/08 8:45 AM >>> > Jefferson was an elitist-- which explains a lot of his crummy > behavior, > and there's no reason to believe he ever considered freeing his > slaves. > That being said, the man was brilliant and did some extraordinary > thinking and > important things. I don't think anyone wants to excuse the bad/ > wrong he > did. > The defensive reaction comes when it sounds as if some want to tear > him > down, > dismiss his accomplishments, and destroy the respect in which he is > held... because he wasn't a saint. > None of the so-called founding fathers was perfect. I find it > fascinating to learn more about all of them > (as well as some of the "little people" of the time). Why is there so > much vitriol here about TJ? > > -- > Melinda C. P. Skinner > Richmond, VA > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Paul Finkelman <[log in to unmask]> >> We owe a lot to Dan, so does Monticello. >> My sense is that some people on this list do not really appreciate >> "scholarship" and intellectual inquiry, but are only interested in >> hagiography. >> Henry is right that we must "judge" and evaluate people from the past >> because we have inherited what they created. But even if we only > judge >> Jefferson by the standards of his own time, he does not come off very >> well. He was in the position, many times in his life, to take a stand > on >> slavery; he never did. >> Some on this list want to see him as a secret opponent of slavery, >> who >> would have freed his slaves if only he had not been bankrupt; but >> that >> "if" goes to his character. Throughout his life he spent money he >> did >> not have and sold human beings to pay his debts. In the 1780s and > 1790s >> he sold at least 85 people -- sold them away from their friends, >> their >> family, the world they knew, so that he could buy his wine, his art, > his >> toys and rebuild his house over and over again. It is hardly an >> admirable legacy. >> When his neighbor Edward Coles resolved to free his own slaves and > asked >> TJ to endorse that act -- and to take a stand against slavery; TJ >> refused. >> When people asked him to simply oppose the spread of slavery in 1820 > he >> flat out refused. >> When chair of the committee to revise the laws of VA he proposed >> horribly draconian laws against blacks and against white women who >> had >> children with free blacks -- so extreme that the Va. legislature >> would >> not pass them. >> Judge him by his own standards -- his claims that we are all "created >> equal" -- and he is a miserable failure. What did he do to make >> sure >> to bring "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to the slaves he >> owned and to those owned by so many other Virginians? >> >> Paul Finkelman >> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law >> and Public Policy >> Albany Law School >> 80 New Scotland Avenue >> Albany, New York 12208-3494 >> >> 518-445-3386 >> [log in to unmask] >>>>> [log in to unmask] 05/01/08 9:13 PM >>> >> At the risk of making my good friend Deane Mills scream, I'll say >> that >> we >> SHOULD be judging the people of the past. We live under their laws, >> their >> Constitution, their customs, so we have a right to inquire about the >> character of those people who made the world we live in. When we >> write >> books >> that heap praise on the Founders, that's a judgement too. >> >> Lyle Browning asks for a succinct summary of this Hemings question. > You >> could look at the Monticello report on their website, which is very >> clearly >> presented, and then look at Herb's website for another view. >> >> Jon Kukla said what I have been thinking of saying but haven't gotten >> around >> to -- the personal attacks on Dan Jordan of Monticello are way, way > out >> of >> line. He is a superb scholar, committed to a full and frank >> discussion >> of >> the Jeffersonian legacy. He presided over the creation of the >> magnificent >> International Center for Jefferson Studies, where scores of scholars >> come >> from around the world to study, discuss, and advance Jefferson >> studies >> in an >> open and impartial atmosphere. We owe Dan a lot. >> >> Henry Wiencek >> Charlottesville >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions >> at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions > at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html