In a similar vein, when Queen Elizabeth II visited Australia many years ago, she was to meet some Aborigines. They had a socially acceptable way of having a poop while maintaining conversation with the group. They were given a "suggestion" that it was not the done thing when conversing with QEII. Social customs and the inadvertent crossing of cultures are wonderful things. Lyle Browning On May 17, 2008, at 2:22 AM, Stephan A. Schwartz wrote: > At Versailles the clothing women wore to social events at the > palace was so complex that during a ball there were servants with > chamber pots covered with towels, who would pass through the > ballroom, catch a signal from a lady, and thrust the chamber pot up > under their gown so they could urinate. There are accounts of this > happening while the lady in question continued to participate in an > ongoing conversation. > > -- Stephan > > > On 16 May 2008, at 23:44, Lyle E. Browning wrote: > >> On May 16, 2008, at 10:44 PM, Elizabeth Whitaker wrote: >> >>> Even at the highest ranks of European society, personal >>> cleanliness as we define it was somewhat lacking. For instance, >>> the royal palace at Versailles had no ...ah... restrooms as such. >>> There must have been chamberpots in the bedrooms, but the hordes >>> of nobles, servants, etc. at the palace couldn't and didn't spend >>> all their time in and near their sleeping places. >> Queen Elizabeth I was reckoned in her time a clean freak because >> she bathed 2x/year. >> >> Versailles has, from the tour I had and from other folks who had >> the tour in different years, a remarkable oral history to be >> related. There were no restrooms as that concept was a couple of >> hundred years in the future. What they did have was chamberpots, >> which were placed behind doors that were open, creating a small >> triangular space. That was where all did their business and it was >> judged quite normal. So, apparently there was a protocol for >> determining if the space was occupied or not. Probably not on the >> order of "Yo, Louis, you back there" but something a bit more >> refined. A chamber pot with the lid on is not exactly an airtight >> container so the combined pong at the end of the day must have been >> amazing. No wonder perfume was invented by those worthies. And no >> wonder the handkerchief was the first gas mask, doused in perfume >> and held close to mask said pong. >> >> As an oral history, this one would at least be verifiable. If the >> original floorboards, skirting boards, or frames are still in >> place, then testing for uric acid would find spatter patterns >> merging into one pungent disk of material. >> >> That was done on soil samples for a tavern for which, if memory >> serves, had been reduced to rubble in a plowed field. Soil tests >> showed high concentrations of phosphates at the front corners of >> the buildings, corresponding to recorded practice of gents >> relieving themselves around the corners on the walls. The modern >> concept of privacy while performing natural functions is definitely >> not the historic mode. In the medieval period, it was apparently >> considered perfectly normal for gents to turn to a wall along a >> busy street, or at least there are illustrations of the top 2% >> doing that (of course those folks are aberrations anyway so who >> knows;) >>> >>> >>> I'm a member of that age cohort who hit the teen years in the >>> early '70s. I remember how odd our parents thought we were for >>> washing our hair _every_ day! "Older ladies," for instance, >>> usually had their hair washed and set once a week at the local >>> "beauty parlor." >> I got the same thing in Britain in the 70's because I took a daily >> bath. The Brits thought that was odd. They also did not wear >> deodorant, nor did about half the ladies shave their armpits, nor >> did they shave their legs. Now all that is commonplace (daily >> baths, deodorants and shaved pits and legs). Most of the time, one >> simply did not notice anyway as only a few folks were decidedly off >> in their personal hygiene. We did have kids who'd grown up so poor >> that they were allowed baths once a fortnight (2 weeks) due to the >> cost of heating water and who did laundry once a month. Those we >> set straight as to what was expected, but politely. Personal habits >> in group dynamics were an interesting conflict to watch and to have >> to deal with. >> >> Lyle Browning, RPA >> >> >>> >>> >>> Elizabeth Whitaker >>> >>> Melinda Skinner wrote: >>>>> From my readings and research about colonial Virginia and 16th >>>>> and 17th-century England, >>>> most people were pretty filthy and smelly. I would think that >>>> any household slaves/servants >>>> would be about as clean as their employers/masters. >>>> -- >>>> Melinda C. P. Skinner >>>> Richmond, VA >>> >>> ______________________________________ >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >>> instructions at >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> ______________________________________ >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the >> instructions at >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > ______________________________________ > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the > instructions at > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html ______________________________________ To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html