Thank you, Anita. -- Stephan On 14 Jun 2007, at 21:06, Anita Wills wrote: > Stephan, > This is an excellent response, and well written. I remember that we > discussed this in one of my history classes, and it never hurts to > hear it again. > > Anita > > >> From: "Stephan A. Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]> >> Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia >> history <[log in to unmask]> >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, >> etc.) >> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:54:21 -0400 >> >> Let me suggest that the association of slavery with Southern >> American history (including Virginia) stems from the unique >> disposition and cultural affect of the American colonial and post >> independence periods, which made possible a coherent industrial >> agricultural system built around cotton and tobacco. One which >> required large numbers of workers, in the absence of the >> machinery which would ultimately displace this approach to agri- >> business. That these workers were African, as opposed to >> indentured Irish, say, I would propose is a product of both >> historical synchronicity: the rise of exploration and the place >> of slavery at the time, in the Africa the explorers discovered, >> and the evolutionary development that produced a resistance to >> Malaria in Africans, particularly west Africans -- and which also >> was the source of this same population's problems with sickle >> cell trait -- about 2 million Americans have sickle cell trait. >> About 1 in 12 African Americans has sickle cell trait. >> >> -- Stephan >> >> On 14 Jun 2007, at 16:29, Anita Wills wrote: >> >>> It is interesting that you now lay the association of Islam with >>> slavery in my lap. I did not make that association, which is why >>> I posed the question. We are supposed to be discussing Virginia >>> history in general and American history in particular. I was >>> simply attempting to bring the discussion back to Virginia >>> History. BTW I was not posing the question to anyway in >>> particular, so please do not take offense. >>> >>> However, thank you for at least attempting to answer the question. >>> >>> Anita >>> >>> >>>> From: David Kiracofe <[log in to unmask]> >>>> Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia >>>> history <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral >>>> stance, etc.) >>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:21:55 -0400 >>>> >>>> I'm a bit put off with your association of Islam, which is a >>>> cultural >>>> and religious system, with the institution of slavery as >>>> practiced in >>>> its various locales. Yes, Islamic law validated the holding >>>> of slaves, >>>> but so did Christianity and numerous other faiths. But surely the >>>> association of the buying and selling of people should be with the >>>> people who did the buying and selling and not their presumed belief >>>> systems. Neither the African Muslim seller (and not all >>>> sellers were in >>>> fact Muslims) nor the European Christian buyers were behaviing >>>> in ways >>>> that one would call specifically religious, rather they were >>>> engaged in >>>> a very secular economic activity. >>>> >>>> To get to your question though (I wouldn't want to be accused >>>> of evading >>>> it), Europeans began associating Africans with exploitable labor >>>> well >>>> before Columbus. The Portuguese who acquired the first >>>> African slaves >>>> (around 1440) did so from Muslim merchants in West Africa. The >>>> degradation of people who were so different from themselves >>>> validated >>>> Europeans' sense of occupying a higher place in the hierarchy >>>> of nature. >>>> Europeans were quick to exploit Native workers in the Americas as >>>> well. When desease and other problems with Native workers created >>>> shortages, the contacts with those West African merchants were >>>> already >>>> in place and ready to fill the need. Muslim merchants didn't >>>> create >>>> this worldview, their role was simply to make it concrete for >>>> Europeans. >>>> >>>> To jump ahead to Virginia, we can see that the English came to >>>> the new >>>> world with pre-existing social notions about the nature of the >>>> universe >>>> -- in which some were of higher order than others -- and >>>> economic ideas >>>> about the exploitation of the labor of lower orders, including both >>>> Native Americans and Africans as well as other Europeans. If >>>> Native >>>> American people resisted coerced labor, those who were prepared >>>> to be >>>> dominant were ready to turn to other "lower" people. In >>>> Virginia that >>>> meant principally the lower orders of English society and so >>>> there was >>>> the massive migration of lower class servants. >>>> >>>> One result of bringing over people from the English-speaking >>>> world was >>>> that the society of early Virginia was very fluid: one could >>>> serve one's >>>> time and then acquire freedom, and possibly land and status, >>>> and so move >>>> up from the lower ranks. As the colonial society matured, however, >>>> there was a desire to make a more fixed, less fluid, society >>>> (more like >>>> that of England where rank was very clearly delineated) and so >>>> there was >>>> a need to settle on a labor system where labor was unable to >>>> achieve >>>> freedom and its material and social benefits. Therefore we see the >>>> movement toward slavery and particularly African slavery. It >>>> wasn't >>>> all about race and yet race was so central to the practice of >>>> it as to >>>> make the distinction all but irrelevant. >>>> >>>> I know this is a very truncated history of the beginnings of >>>> slavery in >>>> Virginia, leaving out the perhaps anomalous experience of the first >>>> Africans brought to Jamestown, and further skipping past the >>>> developments in Virginia law pertaining to labor and race, but I >>>> will >>>> leave it there and if anyone wants to add, subtract or even just >>>> quibble, well, that's what we're all here for. >>>> >>>> David Kiracofe >>>> >>>> >>>> David Kiracofe >>>> History >>>> Tidewater Community College >>>> Chesapeake Campus >>>> 1428 Cedar Road >>>> Chesapeake, Virginia 23322 >>>> 757-822-5136 >>>> >>> Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> 06/14/07 12:53 PM >>> >>>> My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving >>>> Indians? >>>> No one seems to want to answer that. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - >>> only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > _________________________________________________________________ > Like puzzles? 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