Ok. I'll give you one reason is oil, if you'll give me ensuring the survival of our 51st state, Israel, is another among many, many other reasons -- although hardly a moral one to forego for economic interest. You Jews -- grab you life jackets -- it's into the sea for you. The "righteous" have spoken and "me" "are" the wrong and the wrong doers. What has this got to do with Virginia History? -- ask me about that when gasification of coal becomes the "norm", every Virginia neighborhood has a nuclear reactor, and the second vehicle in your garage is a bicycle. I've yet to find "morality" on the shelves at Kroger's; and, I'm addicted to "economic interest" -- my own. Sorry, I'm a bad person. Adam Smith, you dirty cur! You made me what I am. What have I learned from history? I'm not going to change. Signed: Immoral Me ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Wills" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Madison's slaves (and black descendants?) > Yes, we have so much knowledge and a foundation of history to learn from. > Yet here we are engaged in a war in which people are dying for Oil. If > that is not foregoing morality for economic interest, I don't know what > is. So what have we learned from history? > > Anita > > >>From: [log in to unmask] >>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >><[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Madison's slaves (and black descendants?) >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:15:08 -0400 >> >>I would imagine that most of us who teach Virginia history have read Henry >>Wiencek's book on Washington. I've read it--indeed, I've taught it. But >>even to the extent that men like Washington, Mason, Jefferson, and so on >>acknowledged the evil of slavery--and he is quite right that they >>did--they also knew well that their constituents would not follow them on >>the issue. >> >>I disagree that the Founding was determined solely on matters of interest. >>Yes, in the heat of argument, and when it served his purposes, Rutledge >>said so. But its simply ludicrous to suggest that Madison, Mason, Wilson, >>Sherman, Livingston, Dickenson, Ellsworth, and so on spent all that time >>arguing solely over matters of economic interest. There was quite a bit >>of principled debate going on in the convention--but when it came to >>slavery, they were willing to compromise along lines of economic interest. >>That fact right there tells us something important about how those men >>prioritized the morality of slavery. While many of them, including some >>southerners and some slave owners, agreed that slavery was wrong, too many >>of them also agreed with Patrick Henry, for whom "convenience" overwhelmed >>conviction. >> >>As a matter of political calculation, the Founders knew that they not only >>had to craft a constitution, they also had to produce a frame of >>government that had some potential to be ratified by their constituents. >>And when we look at the statements of the people who ratified the >>Constitution, its quite clear where they stood on the matter. Kaminski >>argues that by 1787, whatever window had earlier existed to abolish >>slavery was firmly shut--and in my view he is correct. >> >>I agree very much that we should be critical of those men--like George >>Mason or Thomas Jefferson--who acknowledged the evil of slavery and >>nonetheless did nothing about it. >> >>But to some degree that is the easy part. Much more difficult is to ask >>ourselves, "what would have to be true about the society in which I live, >>that *I* might behave as Patrick Henry behaved?" What has to be so, about >>the world in which I live, that *I* might be complicit in evil? >>Acknowledging evil, and then failing to confront it, is a rather human >>thing to do. The harder task in front of us, it seems to me, is to >>understand the humanity--the essential "like me-ness"--of men like >>Rutledge, or Pinckney. And, in as much as *those* men were far more >>typical of the enfranchised men of the south who exercised citizenship in >>the period, in understanding the Rutledges and Pinckneys, we come close to >>understanding the society in which most slaves lived their lives. >>Kevin R. Hardwick, Ph.D. >>Department of History >>James Madison University > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: > 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM > >