Stephan, This is an excellent response, and well written. I remember that we discussed this in one of my history classes, and it never hurts to hear it again. Anita >From: "Stephan A. Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history > <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.) >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:54:21 -0400 > >Let me suggest that the association of slavery with Southern American >history (including Virginia) stems from the unique disposition and >cultural affect of the American colonial and post independence periods, >which made possible a coherent industrial agricultural system built around >cotton and tobacco. One which required large numbers of workers, in the >absence of the machinery which would ultimately displace this approach to >agri-business. That these workers were African, as opposed to indentured >Irish, say, I would propose is a product of both historical synchronicity: >the rise of exploration and the place of slavery at the time, in the >Africa the explorers discovered, and the evolutionary development that >produced a resistance to Malaria in Africans, particularly west Africans >-- and which also was the source of this same population's problems with >sickle cell trait -- about 2 million Americans have sickle cell trait. >About 1 in 12 African Americans has sickle cell trait. > >-- Stephan > >On 14 Jun 2007, at 16:29, Anita Wills wrote: > >>It is interesting that you now lay the association of Islam with slavery >>in my lap. I did not make that association, which is why I posed the >>question. We are supposed to be discussing Virginia history in general >>and American history in particular. I was simply attempting to bring the >>discussion back to Virginia History. BTW I was not posing the question to >>anyway in particular, so please do not take offense. >> >>However, thank you for at least attempting to answer the question. >> >>Anita >> >> >>>From: David Kiracofe <[log in to unmask]> >>>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history >>> <[log in to unmask]> >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.) >>>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:21:55 -0400 >>> >>>I'm a bit put off with your association of Islam, which is a cultural >>>and religious system, with the institution of slavery as practiced in >>>its various locales. Yes, Islamic law validated the holding of slaves, >>>but so did Christianity and numerous other faiths. But surely the >>>association of the buying and selling of people should be with the >>>people who did the buying and selling and not their presumed belief >>>systems. Neither the African Muslim seller (and not all sellers were in >>>fact Muslims) nor the European Christian buyers were behaviing in ways >>>that one would call specifically religious, rather they were engaged in >>>a very secular economic activity. >>> >>>To get to your question though (I wouldn't want to be accused of evading >>>it), Europeans began associating Africans with exploitable labor well >>>before Columbus. The Portuguese who acquired the first African slaves >>>(around 1440) did so from Muslim merchants in West Africa. The >>>degradation of people who were so different from themselves validated >>>Europeans' sense of occupying a higher place in the hierarchy of nature. >>> Europeans were quick to exploit Native workers in the Americas as >>>well. When desease and other problems with Native workers created >>>shortages, the contacts with those West African merchants were already >>>in place and ready to fill the need. Muslim merchants didn't create >>>this worldview, their role was simply to make it concrete for Europeans. >>> >>>To jump ahead to Virginia, we can see that the English came to the new >>>world with pre-existing social notions about the nature of the universe >>>-- in which some were of higher order than others -- and economic ideas >>>about the exploitation of the labor of lower orders, including both >>>Native Americans and Africans as well as other Europeans. If Native >>>American people resisted coerced labor, those who were prepared to be >>>dominant were ready to turn to other "lower" people. In Virginia that >>>meant principally the lower orders of English society and so there was >>>the massive migration of lower class servants. >>> >>>One result of bringing over people from the English-speaking world was >>>that the society of early Virginia was very fluid: one could serve one's >>>time and then acquire freedom, and possibly land and status, and so move >>>up from the lower ranks. As the colonial society matured, however, >>>there was a desire to make a more fixed, less fluid, society (more like >>>that of England where rank was very clearly delineated) and so there was >>>a need to settle on a labor system where labor was unable to achieve >>>freedom and its material and social benefits. Therefore we see the >>>movement toward slavery and particularly African slavery. It wasn't >>>all about race and yet race was so central to the practice of it as to >>>make the distinction all but irrelevant. >>> >>>I know this is a very truncated history of the beginnings of slavery in >>>Virginia, leaving out the perhaps anomalous experience of the first >>>Africans brought to Jamestown, and further skipping past the >>>developments in Virginia law pertaining to labor and race, but I will >>>leave it there and if anyone wants to add, subtract or even just >>>quibble, well, that's what we're all here for. >>> >>>David Kiracofe >>> >>> >>>David Kiracofe >>>History >>>Tidewater Community College >>>Chesapeake Campus >>>1428 Cedar Road >>>Chesapeake, Virginia 23322 >>>757-822-5136 >>> >>> Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> 06/14/07 12:53 PM >>> >>>My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving >>>Indians? >>>No one seems to want to answer that. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN >>http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm _________________________________________________________________ Like puzzles? 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