Please don't think I was being disrespectful. I just don't believe that the end justifies the means and that is the direction "what if" conversations about the War of Northern Aggression always leads. "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Sorry you can't see the relevance. Lyle On Feb 14, 2007, at 9:25 PM, Clara Callahan wrote: > Your question is irrelevant. > > "Lyle E. Browning" wrote: On Feb 14, 2007, at > 7:51 PM, Clara Callahan wrote: > >> Uh, no.....my position is that the states had the right to secede >> and Lincoln was a tyrant who violated the Constitution and the >> outcome was 700,000 dead Americans. > Uh, yes...your position taken to the logical extreme is that the USA > and CSA go their separate ways. The 700k dead Amis was the > consequence of holding together that Union. Absent the Civil War, my > postulate is correct from the way your phrasing had it. My question > is still unanswered: Would you be here had it happened? And how many > of the rest of us would be here had it happened? > > Lyle Browning >> >> "Lyle E. Browning" wrote: So the logical >> outcome of your position would be that the USA and the >> CSA split? I wonder how many of us would be here now were that to >> have been the case? I daresay hardly any. And as for what would have >> happened in WWII and the Cold War, presuming they still happened >> without the currently configured USA, I'd have to wonder whether we'd >> all be in a far greater pickle. >> >> Dorm-room arguments are one thing, reality is another. >> >> Lyle Browning >> >> >> On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Clara Callahan wrote: >> >>> I never said any such thing. Basil did, and he has a right to his >>> opinion and a right to voice it and I have a right to agree or >>> disagree with him. I also never said that all Indians are >>> savages. I said that Indians who murdered and mutilated were >>> savages and to portray them as respectable would be a lie. >>> >>> Abraham Lincoln, may his name live on in infamy, was responsible >>> for the deaths of 700,000 of the citizens he took an oath to >>> protect, many of them Indian and black. He advocated a scorched >>> earth policy and gave tacit approval to rampage, rape and murder. >>> He intentionally destroyed an entire society, not because >>> Southerners owned slaves but because he didn't want to let states >>> who from the get-go had constitutional rights to secede do so. He >>> exiled newspapermen, jailed people who spoke out against him, freed >>> only those slaves behind Confederate lines, yadda yadda yadda. HE >>> wasn't respectable, either. The man should have been tried for war >>> crimes and handed over to a firing squad. Which, come to think of >>> it, is kinda sorta but not exactly what happened. If you knew >>> anything about him at all, you would know that he was not anti- >>> slavery until he started losing the war. He made it clear he did >>> not want blacks in the state of Illinois and he was open and on >>> record >>> about his view that blacks could never be equal to whites. He >>> wanted to ship all of them back to Africa. >>> >>> Your label of "terrorist" is incorrect and insulting to >>> descendents of Confederate soldiers, Virginian or otherwise. >>> Furthermore, and just for the record, the Practitioners of the >>> Religion of Peace did not have their way in Pennsylvania. They >>> were headed for Washington until the passengers cut their trip >>> short. >>> >>> You haven't answered my question. >>> >>> Anne Pemberton wrote: >>> Clara, >>> >>> You were the one who said folks who were wronged should just "get >>> over it". >>> You are the one who insists that Native Americans are savages for >>> the acts >>> of a few, despite the peaceful good nature of the rest of them. >>> Now, it is >>> your turn to just "get over it". >>> >>> I find it amusing that the legislature that refuses to honor >>> Lincoln so long >>> after the civil war is over, is the same legislature that wretched >>> and >>> waffled over apologizing to the descendents of former slaves until >>> they so >>> watered down the words they used as to be disrespectful. >>> >>> Anne >>> >>> >>> Anne Pemberton >>> [log in to unmask] >>> http://www.erols.com/stevepem >>> http://www.erols.com/apembert >>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Clara Callahan" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: Long memories >>> >>> >>>> So lemme get this straight. Descendents of southerners who lived >>>> through >>>> the invasion need to get over it but descendents of blacks and >>>> Indians >>>> don't? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anne Pemberton wrote: >>>> Henry, >>>> >>>> Apparently, some people do not perceive the need to "get over it", >>>> they >>>> just >>>> inflict that flippancy to those they disrespect. >>>> >>>> Never mind that Virginians "laid waste " to the lives, homes, and >>>> lands of >>>> the Native Americans. That was OK. But for Lincoln to respond to >>>> the >>>> attack >>>> of the southern terrorists, was certainly indecent of him. He >>>> should have >>>> just let those terrorists have their way, as they did in the >>>> countryside >>>> of >>>> Pennsylvania. >>>> >>>> Anne >>>> >>>> Anne Pemberton >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> http://www.erols.com/stevepem >>>> http://www.erols.com/apembert >>>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Henry Wiencek" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:02 PM >>>> Subject: Long memories >>>> >>>> >>>> This just in on the AP wire: >>>> >>>> RICHMOND, Va. >>>> >>>> Virginia lawmakers killed legislation today that would have made >>>> Virginia >>>> part of the national commemoration of Abraham Lincoln's 200th >>>> birthday. >>>> >>>> . . . Robert Lamb of Richmond, a member of the Sons of Confederate >>>> Veterans, told the committee that Lincoln ... quote ... "sent >>>> armies into >>>> Virginia to lay waste to our land." >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> I guess "with malice toward none" doesn't cut it any longer. Do I >>>> hear >>>> anyone saying "Get over it"? >>>> >>>> Henry Wiencek >>>> Charlottesville >>>> >>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>>> instructions >>>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>>> >>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>>> instructions >>>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>>> >>>> >>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>>> instructions >>>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>> instructions >>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >>> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>> instructions >>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >> instructions >> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >> instructions >> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the > instructions > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the > instructions > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html