Well, I belong to a bunch of lists but can never recall this subject being discussed before now. History in school never dealt with it either - nor was the course, at that time, this interesting! The things we learn in genealogy!! Diane in TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Cabell" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] origin of the eff-word > What a varied menu one gets with VA-HIST. I recall two recent so-called > origins of the eff word. Having said that, I cannot recall the first one > which I think came from the German. > > The second is based on a legend that at some point in English History, > fornication required the consent of the king. And when he gave it, the > couple would hang out a sign which said: > "Fornication Under Consent of the King", and as we do so today with > instant > messaging, this was shortened, in this case to just the four letters of > the > major words. > > An interesting story, but I have nothing further on it. If I can recall > the > other explanation, I'll forward that. > > Randy Cabell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melinda Skinner" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 12:47 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] origin of the eff-word > > >> From Wikepedia: >> >> ETYMOLOGY >> Reputable sources such as the Oxford English Dictionary contend the true >> etymology of f**k is still uncertain but appears to point to an >> Anglo-Saxon origin. >> The first known occurrence, in code, is in a poem composed in a mixture >> of >> Latin and English sometime before 1500. The poem, which satirizes the >> Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen flyys", >> from the first words of its opening line, "Flen, flyys, and freris"; that >> is, "Fleas, flies, and friars". The line that contains fuck reads "Non >> sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk". Removing the substitution >> cipher on the phrase "gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk" yields "non sunt in coeli, >> quia fvccant vvivys of heli", which translated means "they are not in >> heaven because they f**k the wives of Ely" (fvccant is a fake Latin >> form).[2] The phrase was coded because of its meaning; it is uncertain to >> what extent the word itself was considered acceptable. >> Other possible connections are to Latin futuere (hence the French foutre, >> the Catalan fotre, the Italian fottere, the Romanian fute, the vulgar >> peninsular Spanish follar and joder, and the Portuguese foder). However, >> there is considerable doubt and no clear lineage for these derivations. >> These roots, even if cognate, are not the original Indo-European word for >> to copulate; that root is likely *h3yebh-, ("h3" is the H3 laryngeal) >> which is attested in Sanskrit (yabhati) and the Slavic languages (Russian >> ????? (yebat'), Polish jeba?, Serbian ?????? (jebati)), among others: >> compare Greek "oiphô", and Greek "zephyros" (noun, ref. a Greek belief >> that the west wind caused pregnancy). However, Wayland Young (who agrees >> that these words are related) argues that they derive from the >> Indo-European *bhu- or *bhug-, believed to be the root of "to be", "to >> grow", and "to build". [Young, 1964] >> Spanish follar has a different root; according to Spanish etymologists, >> the Spanish verb follar"(attested in the 19th century) derives from >> fuelle >> ("bellows") from Latin folle(m) < Indo-European *bhel-; ancient Spanish >> verb folgar (attested in the 15th century) derived from Latin follicare, >> also ultimately from follem/follis. >> A possible etymology is suggested by the fact that the Common Germanic >> fuk-, by an application of Grimm's law, would have as its most likely >> Indo-European ancestor *pug-, which appears in Latin and Greek words >> meaning "fight" and "fist". In early Common Germanic the word was likely >> used at first as a slang or euphemistic replacement for an older word for >> intercourse, and then became the usual word for intercourse. Then, f**k >> has cognates in other Germanic languages, such as Middle Dutch fokken (to >> thrust, copulate, or to breed), dialectical Norwegian fukka (to >> copulate), >> and dialectical Swedish focka (to strike, copulate) and fock (penis). >> There is perhaps even an original Celtic derivation; futuere being >> related >> to battuere (to strike, to copulate); which may be related to Irish bot >> and Manx bwoid (penis). The argument is that battuere and futuere (like >> the Irish and Manx words) comes from the Celtic *bactuere (to pierce), >> from the root buc- (a point). Or perhaps Latin futuere came from the root >> fu, Common Indo-European bhu, meaning "be, become" and originally >> referred >> to procreation. >> FALSE ETYMOLOGIES >> One reason that the word f**k is so hard to trace etymologically is that >> it was used far more extensively in common speech than in easily >> traceable >> written forms. >> There are several urban-legend false etymologies postulating an acronymic >> origin for the word. None of these acronyms was ever heard before the >> 1960s, according to the authoritative lexicographical work, The F-Word, >> and thus are backronyms. In any event, the word f**k has been in use far >> too long for some of these supposed origins to be possible. >> One such legend holds that the word f**k came from Irish law. If a couple >> were caught committing adultery, they would be punished "For Unlawful >> Carnal Knowledge In the Nude", with "F**KIN" written on the stocks above >> them to denote the crime. >> Other explanations for f**k as an acronym for adultery offer alternative >> wordings, such as "Fornication Under Carnal/Cardinal Knowledge," or >> "Fornication Under [the] Control/Consent/Command of the King." Variations >> on this theme include, "Fornication Under the Christian King", "False Use >> of Carnal Knowledge", "Felonious Use of Carnal Knowledge", "Felonious >> Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", "Full-On Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", and >> "Found Under Carnal Knowledge"; and the closely related variant, "Forced >> Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - a label supposedly applied to the crime of >> rape. >> In some reports, there are tombstones around English cemeteries that had >> the word engraved in uppercase letters. These referred to those who were >> put to death for crimes against the state and the church. These reports >> have yet to be corroborated since no such tombstone has been identified. >> Another story is that it was written in the log book as F**K when people >> in the military or navy who had homosexual intercourse were being >> punished.[citation needed] >> >> >> -- >> Melinda C. P. Skinner >> Writer and Wonderer >> >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: Diane Ethridge <[log in to unmask]> >>> My son was a Legal Assistant in the USMC for 5 years & was assigned to >>> one >>> of the top Lawyers in the Corps. He was told that the word is an >>> acronym >>> for "Felonius Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - to file in the "for what it's >>> worth" Dept. >>> >>> Diane in TX >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sunshine49" <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:09 AM >>> Subject: [VA-HIST] origin of the eff-word >>> >>> >>> More than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure, but a friend went on a >>> tear and had to find out how old the word was (someone had told her >>> it was strictly 20th Century)... >>> >>> Nancy >>> > The term's origin is likely Germanic, even though no one can as yet >>> > point >>> > to the precise word it came down to us from out of all the possible >>> > candidates. Further, a few scholars hold differing pet theories >>> > outside >>> > of the Germanic origin one, theories which appear to have some holes >>> > in >>> > them. >>> > >>> > 'F*ck' is an old word, even if it's been an almost taboo term for >>> > most >>> > of >>> > its existence. It was around and has been recorded in English since >>> > the >>> > 15th Century; it just wasn't used in common speech all that much, let >>> > alone written down and saved for posterity. Likely its meaning >>> > contributed to its precise origin becoming lost in the mists of >>> > time - >>> > scholars of old would have been in no hurry to catalogue the growth >>> > of >>> > this word, and by the time it forced its way into even the most >>> > respectable of dictionaries, its parentage was long forgotten. >>> > >>> > The earliest cite in The Oxford English Dictionary dates from 1503. >>> > John >>> > Ayto, in his Dictionary of Word Origins cites a proper name (probably >>> > a >>> > joke or parody name) of 'John le F*cker' from 1250, quite possibly >>> > proof >>> > the word we casually toss about today was being similarly tossed >>> > about >>> > 750 years ago. >>> >>> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>> instructions >>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >>> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the >>> instructions >>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions >> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html >> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html