Thanks for the replies. I live in Pittsburgh so it's not likely I'll be getting to a Virginian library anytime soon. The next time I'm likely to be in the state is about 13 months away and that just to pass through on our way to the Outer Banks. I've been looking into this for a while before asking for help. I first came across a reference in E Lawrence Lee's "Indian Wars in North Carolina 1663-1763" which, as I said, implies that the botched river crossing occured during the Sandy Creek Expedition. That foray is well documented on the Web but didn't include the river incident. Then I searched the web and came up with a couple references to it but not enough to pin it down. I got several hits on the horse gathering incident including "The Conquest of the Old Southwest" but took it to be seperate. That incident is well recorded. It is mentioned in Ian K. Steele's "Warpaths: Invasions of North America" which I also own but didn't think to check until today. These accounts only mention that the Natives were returning home from service with General Forbes' expedition against Fort Du Quense here at the Forks of the Ohio and not the river crossing incident. Another fragment I found was here: http://www.public.asu.edu/~stabler/Cherokee/database/CherokeeHistory1.html The third to last paragraph reads in part: "Incidents between Cherokee and white settlers during 1758 were hastily covered over by another treaty, but the cooperation collapsed in 1759. Almost 100 Cherokee accompanying a Virginia expedition against the Ohio Shawnee lost their provisions while crossing a river and were abandoned by their white "allies." Angry at this treatment, the Cherokee helped themselves to some of the Virginians' horses and were attacked. After killing more than twenty Cherokee, the Virginians scalped and mutilated the bodies. They later collected a bounty for the scalps." From this and the fact that I never saw the 2 incidents referred to together I gathered that they were seperate. But today I decided to look at some Cherokee history sites that perhaps didn't list all their individual pages with Google and sure enough I found a story that includes both incidents. ( The paragraph is about half way down the page to the left of the graphic of Fort Loudon. ) http://cherokeehistory.com/1700thro.html So this is where I am at. I still am not sure of anything but am beginning to believe the following. Since Professor Henderson dates the horse gathering incident to May 1758 and others state that the Cherokee were returning home from the Forbes Expedition which at that time was far from complete I suspect that what happened was that Forbes sent out some of his Cherokee irregulars ( he had about 450 at his disposal ) with some whites to strike at the Shawnee while his main army cut a road through the Pennsylvania woods. It was then that the river crossing was botched and the whites refused to share with the Indians and it was later, on the trip home without provisions that the Natives helped themselves to the horses and were attacked by Virginians. To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html