That's an interesting question. It might depend on whether a slave had been obtained according to the legal system at the time or captured/abducted.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelli Yates <[log in to unmask]>
To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 8, 2014 11:39 am
Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - 3 Jul 2014 to 7 Jul 2014 (#2014-4)
I want to thank everyone for there assistance in my search. I also have
another unusual question. Does anyone know if a slave was sold south would
they be forced to change their first name.
On Jul 8, 2014 12:00 AM, "VA-ROOTS automatic digest system" <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 19 messages totaling 1112 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1) (3)
> 2. Davis and Martin (3)
> 3. Alexandria slave museum
> 4. Genealogy Terms (12)
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 20:46:37 -0400
> From: Shelley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> First she will have to figure out where in Virginia her ancestor was at.
> Can't go much further till that is settled. I am not sure of the surname.
> But will see what I can do. Thanks
>
>
> Dr. Shelley Murphy, DM
> aka "familytreegirl"
>
>
> Know Your Roots They are Long and Strong!
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Threadgill <[log in to unmask]>
> To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thu, Jul 3, 2014 5:51 pm
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
>
> Kelli...Richmond had a very large slave market. I have read that when the
> tobacco production went down that slaves from VA were the preferred slave.
> So slave breeding became the next big industry. Slaves were also sold in
> Roanoke and shipped to the deep south. The preferred slave was of the
> Mandinka tribe because they worked together as a group better than some of
> the other tribes. If you are researching the Tyler name, you may want to
> also check Charles City if you haven't already done so.
> www.charlescity.org
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelli Yates
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 7:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I am
> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> further South.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 12:00 AM, VA-ROOTS automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > There is 1 message totaling 18 lines in this issue.
> >
> > Topics of the day:
> >
> > 1. Juneteenth
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:30:23 +0000
> > From: "Julienne, Mari (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Juneteenth
> >
> > Today is Juneteenth. Learn more about this and other celebrations of
> > Freedom's arrival at the Library of Virginia's Out of the Box blog:
> >
> http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/2014/06/19/juneteenth-a-celebration-of-freedom/
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> > **************************************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kelli Yates
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date: 04/04/14
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date: 04/04/14
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 08:21:04 -0400
> From: Hilary Derby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> Good morning!
>
> The following is a listing of slave owners with the surnames of Stephens
> and Tyler found in:.
>
> Virginia Slave Births Index 1853-1865. Volume 5, S-Z
>
> Alexandria Library
>
> Local History/ Special Collections
>
> Leslie Anderson Morales, Editor
>
> Beverly Pierce, Assistant Director
>
> Heritage Books, 2007 Five Volumes
>
>
>
> Pages give following information: Informant’s Surname, Informant’s First
> Name; Slave’s Name; Mother’s Name; Date of Birth; Place of Birth
>
>
>
> *OWNER SURNAME* *COUNTY*
>
>
>
> *STEPHENS:*
>
> A. Greene
>
> Eliza, Henry Amherst
>
> George Frederick
>
> Geo. B. Albemarle
>
> George J. Greene
>
> J. B. Henrico
>
> J. G. Greene
>
>
> J. H. Fauquier
>
> James N. Greene
>
> John Montgomery
>
> John Rockingham
>
> Louisa V. Stafford
>
> Mary Orange
>
> Nancy W. Halifax
>
> Theo Greene
>
> Theodosia Greene
>
> Thos M. Bedford
>
> W. H. Fredericksburg
>
> Was W. Southampton
>
> Wm. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. A. Fauquier
>
> Wm. A. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. H. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. J. Orange
>
> Wm. Orange
>
>
>
> There are also many listed under the surname Stevens
>
>
>
> *TYLER*
>
> (Miss) Loudoun
>
> (Misses) Loudoun
>
>
> Catharine & Eliza Hanover
>
> Elizabeth & Catharine Hanover
>
> G. W. H. Richmond City
>
> Geo. Caroline
>
> Geo. Louisa
>
> Geo. B. Prince William
>
> Jno. Charles City
>
>
> Jno. Spotsylvania
>
> Jno. Prince William
>
> Jno. W. Prince William
>
> Jno. W. Fauquier
>
> Jno. W. Nelson
>
> John J. Loudoun
>
> L. G. Buckingham
>
> Lawson G. Buckingham
>
> M. V. Hanover
>
> Madison V. Hanover
>
> Margaret Hanover
>
> R. B. Henrico
>
> Robt H. Prince William
>
> Thos F. Spotsylvania
>
> W. E. Hanover
>
> W. H. Westmoreland
>
> Wat H. Hanover
>
> Watt H. Hanover
>
> William E. Hanover
>
> Wm F. Norfolk
>
>
>
>
>
> Tylers, (Miss) Loudoun
>
> Tylor, Jno D. Hanover
>
> Tylor, Penelope Loudoun
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Hilary G. Derby, Ph.D.*
>
> *Tree Branches Unlimited, LLC, *
> *Member, Association of Professional Genealogists*
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Hilary Derby <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Good morning, (in the midst of Arthur)!
> >
> > I am attaching two pages of owners 1853-1865, with the surnames of
> > Stephens and Tyler including the counties they lived in. The information
> is
> > from:
> >
> > Virginia Slave Births Index 1853-1865. Volume 5, S-Z
> >
> > Alexandria Library
> >
> > Local History/ Special Collections
> >
> > Leslie Anderson Morales, Editor
> >
> > Beverly Pierce, Assistant Director
> >
> > Heritage Books, 2007 Five Volumes
> >
> >
> >
> > Pages give following information: Informant’s Surname, Informant’s First
> > Name; Slave’s Name; Mother’s Name; Date of Birth; Place of Birth
> >
> >
> > Hilary
> >
> >
> > *Hilary G. Derby, Ph.D.*
> >
> > *Tree Branches Unlimited, LLC, *
> > *Member, Association of Professional Genealogists *
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Linda Threadgill <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Kelli...Richmond had a very large slave market. I have read that when
> the
> >> tobacco production went down that slaves from VA were the preferred
> slave.
> >> So slave breeding became the next big industry. Slaves were also sold in
> >> Roanoke and shipped to the deep south. The preferred slave was of the
> >> Mandinka tribe because they worked together as a group better than some
> of
> >> the other tribes. If you are researching the Tyler name, you may want to
> >> also check Charles City if you haven't already done so.
> >> www.charlescity.org
> >> Linda
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kelli Yates
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 7:22 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> >>
> >>
> >> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I
> am
> >> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> >> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> >> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> >> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> >> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> >> further South.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 12:00 AM, VA-ROOTS automatic digest system <
> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> There is 1 message totaling 18 lines in this issue.
> >>>
> >>> Topics of the day:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Juneteenth
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >>> at
> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:30:23 +0000
> >>> From: "Julienne, Mari (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Subject: Juneteenth
> >>>
> >>> Today is Juneteenth. Learn more about this and other celebrations of
> >>> Freedom's arrival at the Library of Virginia's Out of the Box blog:
> >>> http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/2014/06/
> >>> 19/juneteenth-a-celebration-of-freedom/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >>> at
> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> End of VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> >>> **************************************************************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kelli Yates
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >> at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date:
> 04/04/14
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date:
> 04/04/14
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> >>
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >> at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>
> >
> >
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:57:27 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Davis and Martin
>
> I am interested in a William Davis of Prince William Va he married a
> Miss Bland.I am also interested in Martin F.Martin of New Kent.I believe
> he married a Miss Hix.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 14:51:08 -0400
> From: Henry <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Alexandria slave museum
>
> Try these urls:
> http://www.visitalexandriava.com/listings/Freedom-House/1611/
> https://www.alexandriava.gov/BlackHistory
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 08:42:11 -0400
> From: Shelley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Davis and Martin
>
> I have a William Davis born abt 1814-1818 who married mildred Brand. Brand
> was born abt 1825 around the Richmond Va.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 4, 2014, at 12:57 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> > I am interested in a William Davis of Prince William Va he married a
> Miss Bland.I am also interested in Martin F.Martin of New Kent.I believe he
> married a Miss Hix.
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 07:59:55 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Genealogy Terms
>
> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers after all?
>
> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above Will,
> and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of
> the older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his
> cousin Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at
> the Brown Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family
> "traces back" to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA
> in 1691/1692).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 08:01:06 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Davis and Martin
>
> I can give you a little information. There was a John Hix/Hixe who married
> a Sarah Preston, and they lived in the James City/Charles City Co., VA
> area. Martin Martin married their daughter Miss Sarah Hix/Hixe. Martin and
> Sarah (Hix) Martin had a daughter of their own who was named Elizabeth
> Ann(e) Martin, and she married Merry Webb (one of several men in that Webb
> family over the years who had the given name of "Merry"). A later man in
> that same family who was also named Merry Webb married an Elizabeth
> Davidson (a daughter of Edward Davidson; he died in 1794 in Campbell Co.,
> VA) in the Henry Co., VA area, and she was a member of my overall Davidson
> family (that "traces back" to James City Co., VA by at least 1682....and
> Holland before that).
>
> The above Edward Davidson had an apparent brother who was named William
> Davidson, and those brothers (plus another apparent brother who was named
> David Davidson) appeared on the tithe list in Goochland Co., VA in the
> mid-1740s....as did several members of the referenced Hix family. It
> appears that this William Davidson also married a Miss Hix, since three of
> William's sons were named Goulder, John and Richard Davidson, and those
> three given names were also used in the Hix family (but none of those given
> names were common in other "branches" of my Davidson family). Goulder
> (sometimes shown as Golder or Golden) Hix was also on the Goochland Co., VA
> tithe list in the mid-1740s. If I recall correctly, Marmaduke Hix was on
> the Goochland tithe list in the 1730s.
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:41:48 -0400
> From: Hank Trent <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> Some more background information would help. If you think your ancestor was
> sold south from Virginia, have you looked at the New Orleans slave shipping
> manifests? They're available at ancestry.com and also at least some are at
> afrigeneas. They list lots of slaves' last names, but of course only
> include
> slaves sent by boat, not overland. The last names rarely match the Virginia
> owner's last name.
>
> Short answer: there wasn't a central location for the sale of slaves
> further
> south, though as others have mentioned, Richmond as well as Alexandria
> (when
> it was part of Virginia) were big trading areas. Traders' agents would
> scour
> country auctions also, buy up slaves, and either resell them in the city or
> ship them south themselves. Unfortunately not a lot of records from such
> sales survive.
>
> If you can share more context--what era, what clues you already have--it
> would be very helpful.
>
> Hank Trent
> [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelli Yates
> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I am
> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> further South.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 11:14:21 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who
> was a witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect
> that this John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those
> names of the older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had
> married his cousin Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA
> "Group 10" at the Brown Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that
> Brown family "traces back" to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in
> Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:16:15 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was a
> relative !
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:24:22 -0400
> From: "W.S. Morgan, V" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> The term "friend" may also imply a Quaker connection.
>
>
> William S. Morgan, V
> 2014-15 Chairman
> Pine Castle Pioneer Days, Inc.
> P.O. Box 593175
> Orlando, FL 32859-3175
> 407-427-9692
> http://www.pinecastlepioneerdays.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 12:09 pm
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably
> not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801,
> and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor of
> that
> Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel Brown was
> probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the word
> "friend,"
> should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and
> I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor.
> Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a witness
> was
> probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that this John,
> Daniel
> and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the older John
> Brown in
> Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin Elizabeth Brown
> back in
> the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the Brown Genealogy Society DNA
> testing project, and that Brown family "traces back" to the Francis Brown
> "I"
> who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
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>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:46:14 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> The deed does not say "next friend" which is usually a guardian ad litem
> in a law suit, not in a deed. It just says "friend."
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:16 PM,
> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was
> a
> > relative !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> > Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> > probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
> >
> > On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> >> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> > 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> > of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this
> Daniel
> > Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of
> the word
> > "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers
> > after all?
> >>
> >> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> > Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was
> also the
> > executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who
> was a
> > witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> > John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of
> the
> > older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his
> cousin
> > Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> > Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces
> back"
> > to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in
> 1691/1692).
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Bill Davidson
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > instructions at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 10:08:47 -0700
> From: Dan Floyd <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> "Next friend" is like power of attorney. I have a case in my line where
> the a man was the "next friend" of his brothers wife.
>
>
> On Monday, July 7, 2014 12:16 PM, "
> [log in to unmask]" <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was a
> relative !
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:41:52 -0400
> From: Michelle <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> I have several documents in which the words "next friend" or "friend" are
> used and I admit when I first began doing genealogy research those two
> words threw me off as well.
>
> Next friend definitely means next close relative; think of "kin" when you
> see the word friend or "Next close kin" for next friend. It seems a
> strange use of the word friend to us today.
>
> Sometimes the "next friend" is a parent. In the Brown Will, anyone
> mentioned as Friend" is kin...a relative, it is a broad description and
> does not specify the exact relationship ie. father, brother, uncle, cousin.
> That will have to be determined with further research or by research
> already gathered.
>
> Hope this has helped.
>
> Michelle Pendleton
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:20:57 -0400
> From: Ann Avery Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> From the Bouvier Law Dictionary, 1856: NEXT FRIEND. One who, without
> being regularly appointed guardian, acts for the benefit of an infant,
> married woman, or other person
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:59 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [VA-ROOTS] Genealogy Terms
>
> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in 1801,
> and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor of
> that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown
> was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
>
> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above Will,
> and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:25:31 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Next friend does not necessarily mean "kin"--it is always a
> court-appointed attorney usually for a minor. The word "my friend" Daniel
> Brown, executor does not mean they are related. Could be, but it doesn't
> mean they are. As for "friends" and Quakers (the Society of Friends), be
> careful not to mix up metaphors, so to speak. We are talking an 1800s will
> that simply I appoint my friend Daniel Brown my executor. This is not
> complicated. It means just what it says.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Michelle wrote:
>
> > I have several documents in which the words "next friend" or "friend"
> are used and I admit when I first began doing genealogy research those two
> words threw me off as well.
> >
> > Next friend definitely means next close relative; think of "kin" when
> you see the word friend or "Next close kin" for next friend. It seems a
> strange use of the word friend to us today.
> >
> > Sometimes the "next friend" is a parent. In the Brown Will, anyone
> mentioned as Friend" is kin...a relative, it is a broad description and
> does not specify the exact relationship ie. father, brother, uncle, cousin.
> That will have to be determined with further research or by research
> already gathered.
> >
> > Hope this has helped.
> >
> > Michelle Pendleton
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 15:16:43 -0400
> From: Michelle <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> I should have included that "next friend" can also be an in-law or a legal
> representative. A next friend can be considered the person who represents
> and speaks on behalf of the plaintiff and may be a relative, but also have
> no blood relationship at all. Thank you for correcting me.
>
> I forgot when I answered earlier, that in some of my specific branches the
> "next friend" was almost always a relative, but that does not hold true for
> everyone else.
>
> I think I may have muddied the water when I mentioned the term "next
> friend" when Bill Davidson stated the term "friend" was used and not "next
> friend". Re-reading what Bill wrote it does appear Daniel Brown is a
> friend to John Brown as we use the word today..
>
> I don't agree that the use of the word friend in some documents is not
> complicated. Depending on the time period and the specific family and their
> particular use of a word or phrase, that one word can be quite complicated.
> I have had wills that identified an individual as a friend and later in
> the same document or in Chancery Court cases asking for help on a equitable
> distribution of the estate amongst the heirs; the "friend" was further
> identified as a relative.
>
> I have a family line that never differentiated in documents from a blood
> son or daughter from step children or from daughter/son in-laws. All were
> called son or daughter and it has taken years to sort out the relationships
> and some of it is still not solved.
>
> I was not the person that suggested friend could have a Quaker connection,
> however. Quaker records usually capitalized Friend when addressing a
> specific individual in place of their name or in conjunction with given
> name or surname. The Quaker use of friend does not apply to the John
> Brown will.
>
> In my experience with wills and probate records I have acquired in
> research of my own tree, Bill, the person appointed as Executor has also
> signed as a witness to the Will.
>
> Michelle Pendleton
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:41:32 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Thanks to all who have answered so far. The Will for John Brown shows
> just "friend," not "next friend" (which I already knew had it own meaning).
> Perhaps "friend Daniel Brown, executor" was only a cousin or nephew (if I
> can identify such a potential person), and maybe the Daniel Brown and the
> Thomas Brown who were witnesses were the actual brothers of John Brown.
> DNA testing and conventional research certainly imply that all of the
> Daniel Browns in that immediate area were related (DNA "Group 10").
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:24:19 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> In my experience, the executor is hardly ever also a witness. Could be,
> but I'd say in the case of the John Brown will, the witness Daniel Brown is
> probably is brother, not the "friend" Daniel Brown who is the executor.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 3:16 PM, Michelle wrote:
> >
> >
> > In my experience with wills and probate records I have acquired in
> research of my own tree, Bill, the person appointed as Executor has also
> signed as a witness to the Will.
> >
> > Michelle Pendleton
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of VA-ROOTS Digest - 3 Jul 2014 to 7 Jul 2014 (#2014-4)
> ***********************************************************
>
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