Regarding your question changing "first names"..the short answer is yes and the long answer is yes, they could and they did for any number of reasons some mentioned in previous posts, however amongst themsleves it might be something else. Although if there was a legal issue, regarding ownership among slave owners heirs, then there might be mention of former names to clearly identify who was being discussed. Then there is the possibility that once Emancipation comes in 1865, former slaves take whatever first and last names they choose.
Regarding slave markets in Virginia, it is estimated that between 1830-1860 over 300,000 men, women and children and were either sold (at slave markets or other venues) or taken (by owners or others) as they moved west and to the lower south, and thats probably an underestimate. (Bound Away Virginia & the Western Movement by Fischer & Kelly 2000). If you include the period before 1830 the number is much larger. I am assuming that you have found someone in another state on the 1870 census who gives their place of birth as Virginia. What State and County are they residing in?
Your questions are too general to give an easy answer. You might want to see if you can find 2 books that might offer some assistance: Black Roots by Tony Burroughs or Finding a Place Called Home by Dee Parmer Woodtor Ph.D. You might find at your local library.
You might also want to post a query on Afrigeneas Slave Research Forum or Surnames Forum. You can also search the site for topics, surnames and places that have been discussed for over 10 years. Even if there is no information on the "specific individual/family" you are researching, there might be somone who is researching the area you are focused on who could provide you with sources.
Afrigeneas Slave Forum:
http://www.afrigeneas.com/forumd/
Afrigeneas Surname and Family Research Forum
http://www.afrigeneas.com/forumc/
Selma
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelli Yates <[log in to unmask]>
To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 8, 2014 11:39 am
Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - 3 Jul 2014 to 7 Jul 2014 (#2014-4)
I want to thank everyone for there assistance in my search. I also have
another unusual question. Does anyone know if a slave was sold south would
they be forced to change their first name.
On Jul 8, 2014 12:00 AM, "VA-ROOTS automatic digest system" <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 19 messages totaling 1112 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1) (3)
> 2. Davis and Martin (3)
> 3. Alexandria slave museum
> 4. Genealogy Terms (12)
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 20:46:37 -0400
> From: Shelley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> First she will have to figure out where in Virginia her ancestor was at.
> Can't go much further till that is settled. I am not sure of the surname.
> But will see what I can do. Thanks
>
>
> Dr. Shelley Murphy, DM
> aka "familytreegirl"
>
>
> Know Your Roots They are Long and Strong!
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Threadgill <[log in to unmask]>
> To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thu, Jul 3, 2014 5:51 pm
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
>
> Kelli...Richmond had a very large slave market. I have read that when the
> tobacco production went down that slaves from VA were the preferred slave.
> So slave breeding became the next big industry. Slaves were also sold in
> Roanoke and shipped to the deep south. The preferred slave was of the
> Mandinka tribe because they worked together as a group better than some of
> the other tribes. If you are researching the Tyler name, you may want to
> also check Charles City if you haven't already done so.
> www.charlescity.org
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelli Yates
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 7:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I am
> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> further South.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 12:00 AM, VA-ROOTS automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > There is 1 message totaling 18 lines in this issue.
> >
> > Topics of the day:
> >
> > 1. Juneteenth
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:30:23 +0000
> > From: "Julienne, Mari (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Juneteenth
> >
> > Today is Juneteenth. Learn more about this and other celebrations of
> > Freedom's arrival at the Library of Virginia's Out of the Box blog:
> >
> http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/2014/06/19/juneteenth-a-celebration-of-freedom/
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> > **************************************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kelli Yates
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date: 04/04/14
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date: 04/04/14
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 08:21:04 -0400
> From: Hilary Derby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> Good morning!
>
> The following is a listing of slave owners with the surnames of Stephens
> and Tyler found in:.
>
> Virginia Slave Births Index 1853-1865. Volume 5, S-Z
>
> Alexandria Library
>
> Local History/ Special Collections
>
> Leslie Anderson Morales, Editor
>
> Beverly Pierce, Assistant Director
>
> Heritage Books, 2007 Five Volumes
>
>
>
> Pages give following information: Informant’s Surname, Informant’s First
> Name; Slave’s Name; Mother’s Name; Date of Birth; Place of Birth
>
>
>
> *OWNER SURNAME* *COUNTY*
>
>
>
> *STEPHENS:*
>
> A. Greene
>
> Eliza, Henry Amherst
>
> George Frederick
>
> Geo. B. Albemarle
>
> George J. Greene
>
> J. B. Henrico
>
> J. G. Greene
>
>
> J. H. Fauquier
>
> James N. Greene
>
> John Montgomery
>
> John Rockingham
>
> Louisa V. Stafford
>
> Mary Orange
>
> Nancy W. Halifax
>
> Theo Greene
>
> Theodosia Greene
>
> Thos M. Bedford
>
> W. H. Fredericksburg
>
> Was W. Southampton
>
> Wm. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. A. Fauquier
>
> Wm. A. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. H. Spotsylvania
>
> Wm. J. Orange
>
> Wm. Orange
>
>
>
> There are also many listed under the surname Stevens
>
>
>
> *TYLER*
>
> (Miss) Loudoun
>
> (Misses) Loudoun
>
>
> Catharine & Eliza Hanover
>
> Elizabeth & Catharine Hanover
>
> G. W. H. Richmond City
>
> Geo. Caroline
>
> Geo. Louisa
>
> Geo. B. Prince William
>
> Jno. Charles City
>
>
> Jno. Spotsylvania
>
> Jno. Prince William
>
> Jno. W. Prince William
>
> Jno. W. Fauquier
>
> Jno. W. Nelson
>
> John J. Loudoun
>
> L. G. Buckingham
>
> Lawson G. Buckingham
>
> M. V. Hanover
>
> Madison V. Hanover
>
> Margaret Hanover
>
> R. B. Henrico
>
> Robt H. Prince William
>
> Thos F. Spotsylvania
>
> W. E. Hanover
>
> W. H. Westmoreland
>
> Wat H. Hanover
>
> Watt H. Hanover
>
> William E. Hanover
>
> Wm F. Norfolk
>
>
>
>
>
> Tylers, (Miss) Loudoun
>
> Tylor, Jno D. Hanover
>
> Tylor, Penelope Loudoun
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Hilary G. Derby, Ph.D.*
>
> *Tree Branches Unlimited, LLC, *
> *Member, Association of Professional Genealogists*
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Hilary Derby <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Good morning, (in the midst of Arthur)!
> >
> > I am attaching two pages of owners 1853-1865, with the surnames of
> > Stephens and Tyler including the counties they lived in. The information
> is
> > from:
> >
> > Virginia Slave Births Index 1853-1865. Volume 5, S-Z
> >
> > Alexandria Library
> >
> > Local History/ Special Collections
> >
> > Leslie Anderson Morales, Editor
> >
> > Beverly Pierce, Assistant Director
> >
> > Heritage Books, 2007 Five Volumes
> >
> >
> >
> > Pages give following information: Informant’s Surname, Informant’s First
> > Name; Slave’s Name; Mother’s Name; Date of Birth; Place of Birth
> >
> >
> > Hilary
> >
> >
> > *Hilary G. Derby, Ph.D.*
> >
> > *Tree Branches Unlimited, LLC, *
> > *Member, Association of Professional Genealogists *
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Linda Threadgill <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Kelli...Richmond had a very large slave market. I have read that when
> the
> >> tobacco production went down that slaves from VA were the preferred
> slave.
> >> So slave breeding became the next big industry. Slaves were also sold in
> >> Roanoke and shipped to the deep south. The preferred slave was of the
> >> Mandinka tribe because they worked together as a group better than some
> of
> >> the other tribes. If you are researching the Tyler name, you may want to
> >> also check Charles City if you haven't already done so.
> >> www.charlescity.org
> >> Linda
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kelli Yates
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 7:22 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> >>
> >>
> >> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I
> am
> >> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> >> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> >> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> >> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> >> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> >> further South.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 12:00 AM, VA-ROOTS automatic digest system <
> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> There is 1 message totaling 18 lines in this issue.
> >>>
> >>> Topics of the day:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Juneteenth
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >>> at
> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:30:23 +0000
> >>> From: "Julienne, Mari (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Subject: Juneteenth
> >>>
> >>> Today is Juneteenth. Learn more about this and other celebrations of
> >>> Freedom's arrival at the Library of Virginia's Out of the Box blog:
> >>> http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/2014/06/
> >>> 19/juneteenth-a-celebration-of-freedom/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >>> at
> >>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> End of VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
> >>> **************************************************************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kelli Yates
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >> at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date:
> 04/04/14
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2014.0.4354 / Virus Database: 3722/7300 - Release Date:
> 04/04/14
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> >>
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> >> at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >>
> >
> >
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:57:27 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Davis and Martin
>
> I am interested in a William Davis of Prince William Va he married a
> Miss Bland.I am also interested in Martin F.Martin of New Kent.I believe
> he married a Miss Hix.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 14:51:08 -0400
> From: Henry <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Alexandria slave museum
>
> Try these urls:
> http://www.visitalexandriava.com/listings/Freedom-House/1611/
> https://www.alexandriava.gov/BlackHistory
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 08:42:11 -0400
> From: Shelley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Davis and Martin
>
> I have a William Davis born abt 1814-1818 who married mildred Brand. Brand
> was born abt 1825 around the Richmond Va.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 4, 2014, at 12:57 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> > I am interested in a William Davis of Prince William Va he married a
> Miss Bland.I am also interested in Martin F.Martin of New Kent.I believe he
> married a Miss Hix.
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 07:59:55 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Genealogy Terms
>
> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers after all?
>
> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above Will,
> and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of
> the older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his
> cousin Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at
> the Brown Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family
> "traces back" to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA
> in 1691/1692).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 08:01:06 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Davis and Martin
>
> I can give you a little information. There was a John Hix/Hixe who married
> a Sarah Preston, and they lived in the James City/Charles City Co., VA
> area. Martin Martin married their daughter Miss Sarah Hix/Hixe. Martin and
> Sarah (Hix) Martin had a daughter of their own who was named Elizabeth
> Ann(e) Martin, and she married Merry Webb (one of several men in that Webb
> family over the years who had the given name of "Merry"). A later man in
> that same family who was also named Merry Webb married an Elizabeth
> Davidson (a daughter of Edward Davidson; he died in 1794 in Campbell Co.,
> VA) in the Henry Co., VA area, and she was a member of my overall Davidson
> family (that "traces back" to James City Co., VA by at least 1682....and
> Holland before that).
>
> The above Edward Davidson had an apparent brother who was named William
> Davidson, and those brothers (plus another apparent brother who was named
> David Davidson) appeared on the tithe list in Goochland Co., VA in the
> mid-1740s....as did several members of the referenced Hix family. It
> appears that this William Davidson also married a Miss Hix, since three of
> William's sons were named Goulder, John and Richard Davidson, and those
> three given names were also used in the Hix family (but none of those given
> names were common in other "branches" of my Davidson family). Goulder
> (sometimes shown as Golder or Golden) Hix was also on the Goochland Co., VA
> tithe list in the mid-1740s. If I recall correctly, Marmaduke Hix was on
> the Goochland tithe list in the 1730s.
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:41:48 -0400
> From: Hank Trent <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: VA-ROOTS Digest - <first ever> to 19 Jun 2014 (#2014-1)
>
> Some more background information would help. If you think your ancestor was
> sold south from Virginia, have you looked at the New Orleans slave shipping
> manifests? They're available at ancestry.com and also at least some are at
> afrigeneas. They list lots of slaves' last names, but of course only
> include
> slaves sent by boat, not overland. The last names rarely match the Virginia
> owner's last name.
>
> Short answer: there wasn't a central location for the sale of slaves
> further
> south, though as others have mentioned, Richmond as well as Alexandria
> (when
> it was part of Virginia) were big trading areas. Traders' agents would
> scour
> country auctions also, buy up slaves, and either resell them in the city or
> ship them south themselves. Unfortunately not a lot of records from such
> sales survive.
>
> If you can share more context--what era, what clues you already have--it
> would be very helpful.
>
> Hank Trent
> [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelli Yates
> I am in search of some information and I am not sure how to find it. I am
> in search of an Ancestor in Virginia. I am not sure if the last name is
> Stephens or Tyler (leaning more toward Stephens). Since I am African
> American I am looking for a Slave owner in Virginia with either the name
> Tyler or Stephens. Also for some basic history of Virginia was there a
> central location for the sale of slaves especially if they were sold
> further South.
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 11:14:21 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who
> was a witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect
> that this John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those
> names of the older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had
> married his cousin Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA
> "Group 10" at the Brown Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that
> Brown family "traces back" to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in
> Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:16:15 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was a
> relative !
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:24:22 -0400
> From: "W.S. Morgan, V" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> The term "friend" may also imply a Quaker connection.
>
>
> William S. Morgan, V
> 2014-15 Chairman
> Pine Castle Pioneer Days, Inc.
> P.O. Box 593175
> Orlando, FL 32859-3175
> 407-427-9692
> http://www.pinecastlepioneerdays.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> To: VA-ROOTS <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 12:09 pm
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably
> not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801,
> and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor of
> that
> Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel Brown was
> probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the word
> "friend,"
> should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and
> I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor.
> Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a witness
> was
> probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that this John,
> Daniel
> and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the older John
> Brown in
> Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin Elizabeth Brown
> back in
> the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the Brown Genealogy Society DNA
> testing project, and that Brown family "traces back" to the Francis Brown
> "I"
> who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:46:14 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> The deed does not say "next friend" which is usually a guardian ad litem
> in a law suit, not in a deed. It just says "friend."
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:16 PM,
> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was
> a
> > relative !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> > Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> > probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
> >
> > On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> >> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> > 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> > of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this
> Daniel
> > Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of
> the word
> > "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly
> brothers
> > after all?
> >>
> >> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> > Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was
> also the
> > executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who
> was a
> > witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> > John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of
> the
> > older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his
> cousin
> > Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> > Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces
> back"
> > to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in
> 1691/1692).
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Bill Davidson
> >>
> >> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > instructions at
> >> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions
> > at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 10:08:47 -0700
> From: Dan Floyd <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> "Next friend" is like power of attorney. I have a case in my line where
> the a man was the "next friend" of his brothers wife.
>
>
> On Monday, July 7, 2014 12:16 PM, "
> [log in to unmask]" <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Seem like to me that I have seen instances where one's "next friend" was a
> relative !
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2014 12:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Friend means just that, friend. Not brother. Executor Daniel Brown was
> probably not the witness Daniel Brown.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:59 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> > I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in
> 1801, and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the
> executor
> of that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the
> word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
> >
> > Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above
> Will, and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also
> the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill Davidson
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:41:52 -0400
> From: Michelle <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> I have several documents in which the words "next friend" or "friend" are
> used and I admit when I first began doing genealogy research those two
> words threw me off as well.
>
> Next friend definitely means next close relative; think of "kin" when you
> see the word friend or "Next close kin" for next friend. It seems a
> strange use of the word friend to us today.
>
> Sometimes the "next friend" is a parent. In the Brown Will, anyone
> mentioned as Friend" is kin...a relative, it is a broad description and
> does not specify the exact relationship ie. father, brother, uncle, cousin.
> That will have to be determined with further research or by research
> already gathered.
>
> Hope this has helped.
>
> Michelle Pendleton
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:20:57 -0400
> From: Ann Avery Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> From the Bouvier Law Dictionary, 1856: NEXT FRIEND. One who, without
> being regularly appointed guardian, acts for the benefit of an infant,
> married woman, or other person
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:59 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [VA-ROOTS] Genealogy Terms
>
> I have a Will that was written by a John Brown in Culpeper Co., VA in 1801,
> and that John Brown referred to the Daniel Brown who was the executor of
> that Will as "friend." It had seemed likely, however, that this Daniel
> Brown
> was probably a brother of that John Brown. Based on the use of the word
> "friend," should I now be doubtful that those two men were truly brothers
> after all?
>
> Also, a Daniel Brown and a Thomas Brown were witnesses on the above Will,
> and I suspect that this Daniel Brown was the same man who was also the
> executor. Could the executor also be a witness? The Thomas Brown who was a
> witness was probably the known brother of Daniel Brown. We suspect that
> this
> John, Daniel and Thomas Brown were the known sons with those names of the
> older John Brown in Culpeper (died early-1780s) who had married his cousin
> Elizabeth Brown back in the 1730s or so (this is DNA "Group 10" at the
> Brown
> Genealogy Society DNA testing project, and that Brown family "traces back"
> to the Francis Brown "I" who left his Will in Essex Co., VA in 1691/1692).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:25:31 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Next friend does not necessarily mean "kin"--it is always a
> court-appointed attorney usually for a minor. The word "my friend" Daniel
> Brown, executor does not mean they are related. Could be, but it doesn't
> mean they are. As for "friends" and Quakers (the Society of Friends), be
> careful not to mix up metaphors, so to speak. We are talking an 1800s will
> that simply I appoint my friend Daniel Brown my executor. This is not
> complicated. It means just what it says.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Michelle wrote:
>
> > I have several documents in which the words "next friend" or "friend"
> are used and I admit when I first began doing genealogy research those two
> words threw me off as well.
> >
> > Next friend definitely means next close relative; think of "kin" when
> you see the word friend or "Next close kin" for next friend. It seems a
> strange use of the word friend to us today.
> >
> > Sometimes the "next friend" is a parent. In the Brown Will, anyone
> mentioned as Friend" is kin...a relative, it is a broad description and
> does not specify the exact relationship ie. father, brother, uncle, cousin.
> That will have to be determined with further research or by research
> already gathered.
> >
> > Hope this has helped.
> >
> > Michelle Pendleton
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 15:16:43 -0400
> From: Michelle <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> I should have included that "next friend" can also be an in-law or a legal
> representative. A next friend can be considered the person who represents
> and speaks on behalf of the plaintiff and may be a relative, but also have
> no blood relationship at all. Thank you for correcting me.
>
> I forgot when I answered earlier, that in some of my specific branches the
> "next friend" was almost always a relative, but that does not hold true for
> everyone else.
>
> I think I may have muddied the water when I mentioned the term "next
> friend" when Bill Davidson stated the term "friend" was used and not "next
> friend". Re-reading what Bill wrote it does appear Daniel Brown is a
> friend to John Brown as we use the word today..
>
> I don't agree that the use of the word friend in some documents is not
> complicated. Depending on the time period and the specific family and their
> particular use of a word or phrase, that one word can be quite complicated.
> I have had wills that identified an individual as a friend and later in
> the same document or in Chancery Court cases asking for help on a equitable
> distribution of the estate amongst the heirs; the "friend" was further
> identified as a relative.
>
> I have a family line that never differentiated in documents from a blood
> son or daughter from step children or from daughter/son in-laws. All were
> called son or daughter and it has taken years to sort out the relationships
> and some of it is still not solved.
>
> I was not the person that suggested friend could have a Quaker connection,
> however. Quaker records usually capitalized Friend when addressing a
> specific individual in place of their name or in conjunction with given
> name or surname. The Quaker use of friend does not apply to the John
> Brown will.
>
> In my experience with wills and probate records I have acquired in
> research of my own tree, Bill, the person appointed as Executor has also
> signed as a witness to the Will.
>
> Michelle Pendleton
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:41:32 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> Thanks to all who have answered so far. The Will for John Brown shows
> just "friend," not "next friend" (which I already knew had it own meaning).
> Perhaps "friend Daniel Brown, executor" was only a cousin or nephew (if I
> can identify such a potential person), and maybe the Daniel Brown and the
> Thomas Brown who were witnesses were the actual brothers of John Brown.
> DNA testing and conventional research certainly imply that all of the
> Daniel Browns in that immediate area were related (DNA "Group 10").
>
> Bill Davidson
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:24:19 -0400
> From: Craig Kilby <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Genealogy Terms
>
> In my experience, the executor is hardly ever also a witness. Could be,
> but I'd say in the case of the John Brown will, the witness Daniel Brown is
> probably is brother, not the "friend" Daniel Brown who is the executor.
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 3:16 PM, Michelle wrote:
> >
> >
> > In my experience with wills and probate records I have acquired in
> research of my own tree, Bill, the person appointed as Executor has also
> signed as a witness to the Will.
> >
> > Michelle Pendleton
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of VA-ROOTS Digest - 3 Jul 2014 to 7 Jul 2014 (#2014-4)
> ***********************************************************
>
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