sorry for the error, Dr J is from Mississippi, not Alabama
Katie Holland <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I think all of us would be wise to withdraw from the "heat" and not be so condescending or insulting by posing open inaccurate statements about Southerners. Southerners, like Thomas Jefferson, are complex people.
While it may seem normal to you to have done so, it is not so to the rest of us. I don't see Southern historians or Southerners in general as drawing "simpleminded" conclusions, or formulations as you put it. That is the nature of everyone and is not peculiar to the South. And, it might be helpful to point out, that Dr Daniel P Jordan, President of The Thomas Jefferson Foundation is from Alabama, the most southern of southern states. And it is he who made the controversial statement on the Hemings - Jefferson matter. http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/reportstatement.html
Genealogy has to be one of the most interesting and frustrating of all projects in life. We all seek to find the most accurate data on our ancestors. But, as Dr Jordan used to say (he was my undergraduate mentor), you must keep things in context of the times. In other words, we have to be careful not to project onto the people of the past, things we see in our lives, or in our surroundings.
Can we agree to disagree and move away from this? The List's Archives is much more enlightening as to the details of such an ongoing, and pervious discussion.
Katie Holland
formerly a Virginian
(and possibly Pocahontas descendent)
married to a Marylander
sharon Peery
wrote:
This is intended to be a response to Brent's plea for
civility.
I am all for civility. As a Yankee who goes straight back to
those dreadful New England Puritans, I am also all for the
truth, not only then, but now. We all know that passionate
arguments over history reflect current times and feelings at
least as much as they reflect concern for historic accuracy.
In addition to being an unreconstructed Puritan, I am also
an M.D. I understand very well that DNA testing cannot
tell you who someone's father was. That has to be estab-
lished by historic evidence, often unobtainable. It does
not strike me as peculiar that Mr. Jefferson might have
sought sexual gratification where easily available; it is com-
mon knowledge that owners of slaves often did so. Since
Sally Hemings has been supposed to have been the daughter
of Martha Wayles Skelton's father, she also might naturally
have appealed to Martha Wayles Skelton's widower. Thomas
Jefferson is known to have "offered love" to the wife of a
close friend, while that friend was absent, and to have been
a close companion of a married woman in Paris: his prin-
ciples of sexual conduct seem not to have been absolutely
pure.
Except with respect to the feelings of the Hemings descend-
ants who believe that they are descended from Jefferson, I
really do not care about all of this one way or another.
Jefferson himself supposed that his private affairs were pri-
vate, and except for the above-mentioned caveat, I agree
with him.
The history of the South is the most complex in American
history. Southerners, unfortunately, have often responded
to this complexity with simpleminded formulations elevated
almost to the level of religious belief (I am drawing heavily
on the great Southern historian C. Vann Woodward for this
characterization). Thomas Jefferson was very complex man,
concerning whom simple statements of faith are most
inappropriate. It is difficult to live with openended questions,
but I think it would draw some of the heat from these dis-
cussions if we tried harder to do this, and also to understand
why this still matters so much to some of us.
Sharon Peery
Richmond, Virginia
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