List Members,

	I too think that DNA is a very important genealogy tool.  My Turner family was in Loudoun Co., VA from 1790 to 1800.  The family split & one line went to Bedford Co., PA & the others went to Clermont Co., OH.  I am from the Bedford Co., PA line.  I cannot find my ancestors in PA or VA prior to 1790.  I had a male Turner cousin do DNA.  The branch that went to Clermont Co., OH said the family was related to the Tourneur family of Harlem, NY.  I could not prove it & paid a NY genealogist over $1,000 to do research & he could NOT prove we were related to the Tourneurs.  I found a Tourneur whose mother (who had died) was into genealogy & I paid for him to do a DNA test.  It proved we were NOT related.  I still get emails every time a link is made to the Tourneur line (It is a couple times a month).  So far there are no matches to the Y DNA 37 for the Turner line, but it proved we were NOT related to the Tourneurs.

Lucy Turner Cronin

	
On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Jack Fallin wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I think that Bill's and Ida's comments hit just about every relevant part of the issue.  I would add there is one significant advantage that DNA research, particularly yDNA analysis, can provide -- resolving variant surname spelling issues.  Although that wasn't a primary reason for my doing the yDNA analysis at FTDNA -- the results did resolve my long-standing misconception as to where the VA name Fallin (first record, land purchase in 1671 in Northumberland County) fit in presumably Irish history.  I assumed it connected with the more common "Fallon," the yDNA test proved that, instead, our family tied to a set of surnames [Phelan, Whelan, O' Faoláin] from a completely different part of Ireland.
> 
> I've found one "Surname Group" at FTDNA extremely helpful and another Group apparently out of business.  If there is an active group monitoring new matches for your DNA results they can be enormously helpful in guiding you through the process.
> 
> Finally, there is a subtle difference between the tests being done by these groups that, while a bit technical, is worth mentioning.  
> 
> Most people's preconception of DNA analysis, (including my own original view), is that the testing companies are measuring particular mutations on specific chromosomes that are unique to a given family.  With the conventional yDNA analyses done by FTDNA and Ancestry.com, that is not quite accurate.  Mutations do occur over time and frequently result in a one letter difference in the components on a given stretch of DNA, if you are fortunate enough to be in a family where enough of these have accumulated to be diagnostic, it can be the strongest possible DNA evidence of relationship.  Those individual mutations are commonly referred to as SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms).  In general, that sort of analysis is more commonly used for medical research and forensic evidence than for genealogical purposes.  In addition to "substitutions" in individual sequences, humans also accumulate "repeats" (a given component, rather than being substituted for, will be repeated a varying number of times)  These repeats, commonly referred to as STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) are what most conventional yDNA testing focusses on.  Across a given number of locations, an identity in the number of repeats will provide evidence of increasingly close family connection.  That is also why the yDNA analyses are typically divided by the number of "marker" locations measured, with specificity (and usefulness) increasing with the number of markers.  I would modify Bill's comment (and argue a bit with Paula) to say that the current "gold standard" for yDNA analysis is a 67-marker test.  The lower number tests, usually 12, 25 and 37 markers, are less expensive but less useful because of the large numbers of people for whom a small number or repeat sections will be the same without indicating a useful family connection.  By way of comparison, 23andMe seems to be the only one of the major providers that uses SNPs, rather than STRs, across the whole range of tests.
> 
> Jack Fallin
> Walnut Creek, CA
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:18:44 -0500 Bill Davidson <[log in to unmask]>
>> writes:
>>> The Y chromosome test (that only men can take) has certainly been the 
>>> "gold standard" over the years. That test is "representative" of the 
>>> male donor's father, his father's father, his father's father's 
>>> father, etc. etc. So....if the male DNA donor is a Mr. Jones, for 
>>> example, then the Y chromosome DNA test result would typically be 
>>> "representative" of his entire "Jones line." The "monkey wrench" 
>>> that can be thrown into this test (and into any other DNA test), 
>>> however, is if there was a "non-paternity event" (i.e., an adoption 
>>> or an out-of-wedlock birth), somewhere in the donor's line. For 
>>> example, my mother (who was born a Miss Brown) had a male cousin who 
>>> is a Mr. Brown, but his Y chromosome DNA test results were a match 
>>> to only three men who are all Mr. Smiths. We now know that my 
>>> maternal gg-grandfather named Smith W. Brown was actually an "Smith 
>>> infant" who was taken-in, named and reared by a Brown family in 
>>> Middlesex Co., VA (hence, my mother was actually a "biological 
>>> Smith" versus a "biological Brown"....though she went to her grave 
>>> in 1997 without knowing that).
>>> 
>>> The mtDNA test (which can be taken by a man or a women) is 
>>> "representative" of the donor's mother, that mother's mother. that 
>>> mother's mother's mother, etc. etc. While similar in concept to the 
>>> Y chromosome test, the results from this test present a much harder 
>>> challenge to research. That is because every time a woman marries, 
>>> she receives a different last name. For example, my mother was a 
>>> Miss Brown/Mrs. Davidson, but her mother was a Miss Roudabush/Mrs. 
>>> Brown, while the mother of this last woman was a Miss Messick/Mrs. 
>>> Roudabush. So....it can become quite complicated to "use" the 
>>> results of this test (plus, a lot of people have no idea what the 
>>> maiden name of their mother's mother's mother's mother was, for 
>>> example).
>>> 
>>> The third popular DNA test is called the "Family Finder" test by 
>>> Family Tree DNA, and other companies like "Ancestry" and "23andme" 
>>> have a similar test. This test can be taken by a man or a woman, and 
>>> it will basically show "DNA matches" to people (who have also taken 
>>> this same test) who share any common MALE or FEMALE ancestor with 
>>> the donor within the last four or five generations (this test 
>>> apparently can provide some "false positives"....and/or omit 
>>> relatives all together....once you go back more than about four or 
>>> five generations). People who take this test frequently have 
>>> hundreds of matches, since all kinds of male and female cousins can 
>>> "appear" (with a variety of last names). So....this test can be even 
>>> harder to "interpret" than the mtDNA test....but is has still proven 
>>> to be very valuable to some researchers. As an example of the 
>>> difficulty, one of the donor's "matching" relatives (who also took 
>>> this DNA test) could be a Mrs. Jones/Miss Smith, for example, but 
>>> the REASON that the donor is a match to that Mrs. Jones/Miss Smith 
>>> could be because both donors share a "common Brown relative" from a 
>>> few earlier generations....plus that "common Brown relative" could 
>>> have been on either donor's father's "side of the family" or on the 
>>> mother's "side of the family"....so you can image the effort it can 
>>> take to "make sense" of the results from this test.
>>> 
>>> I took the 37 marker Y chromosome test at Family Tree DNA, and I 
>>> have six other men named "Davidson" at this time who are an 
>>> "excellent DNA match" to me....and I now know how every one of them 
>>> connects to my "Davidson line" (and I have similar DNA test results 
>>> for the above-mentioned Smith/Brown family). I have "traced" all 
>>> three of these surnames (Davidson, Brown and Smith) to men in those 
>>> families who were in Virginia in the 1600s.
>>> 
>>> Comments/questions?
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the 
>>> instructions at
>>> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
>>> 
>>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> Date:    Mon, 10 Jun 2013 02:36:49 -0700
>> From:    [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Best DNA test and Criteria
>> 
>> Paula:
>> 
>> The answer is . . . "it depends."
>> 
>> Which company(ies) you test with and which test(s) you order depend upon
>> your individual needs/interests.
>> 
>> The best companies are FamilyTreeDNA.com and 23andMe.com.
>> 
>> If you want to track a direct male yDNA line (father's father's father,
>> etc.), you need to recruit a male relative to test for that line. If he is
>> not a genealogist, you may need to pay for it. Test at least 37 markers at
>> FamilyTreeDNA (FTDNA). Anything less than 37 markers is anthropologic
>> information.
>> 
>> If you want to track your direct female line (mother's mother's mother,
>> etc.), you can order the complete mitochondrial (mtDNA)test at FTDNA. You
>> may or may not derive any immediate genealogical help from it. If you are
>> curious about the anthropologic information, see Bryan Sykes's book _The
>> Seven Daughters of Eve_.
>> 
>> Both FTDNA (Family Finder) and 23andMe (Relative Finder) do autosomal
>> (atDNA) testing of the non-sex chromosomes for several generations back
>> from you. 23andMe includes some yDNA (in males only), mtDNA, and xDNA
>> testing as part of the package, as well as medical information (risks for
>> various diseases, medication sensitivities). Autosomal DNA can help you
>> find living cousins with whom to collaborate on your mutual research
>> problems. Hence the value of the surnames and place names for use in
>> sorting the matches to determine how you are related. FTDNA and 23andMe
>> provide tools to help in analysis.
>> 
>> The X chromosome (xDNA) test can be quite interesting. The two X
>> chromosomes (one from each parent) are scrambled (recombined) in females.
>> The Genetic Genealogist blog a few years ago provided charts to show the
>> directions the X takes and which ancestral positions did not provide any
>> X.
>> 
>> There are blogs which explain the different tests and how to interpret
>> results:
>> DNA eXplained (Roberta Estes)
>> The Legal Genealogist (Judy Russell)
>> The Genetic Genealogist (Blaine Bettinger)
>> Your Genetic Genealogist (CeCe Moore)
>> 
>> Some blogs also explain how to transfer data from 23andMe to GEDmatch.com
>> (free) and FTDNA (for a fee). This is another way to maximize the number
>> of potential matches, since different people tend to test at different
>> companies.
>> 
>> Some people test at more than one company. I tested myself at 23andMe
>> because I wanted the medical information and the xDNA result. I tested a
>> male relative for my paternal grandfather's yDNA line and another male
>> relative for my maternal grandfather's yDNA line. I also tested one of the
>> men for minimal mtDNA. I am transferring data as appropriate to FTDNA and
>> to GEDmatch when it accepts data again. I administer the test results for
>> the 2 men, and they can remain anonymous.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> --Ida Skarson McCormick, [log in to unmask], Seattle
>> Member of the Seattle Genealogical Society's DNA Interest Group
>> 
>> -------------------
>> 
>> *************************************************************
> 
> 
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