I think where the confusion occurs is that once you get into "removes" the
relationships change depending on whether you are going up or down the line.
Rather than trying to come up with one term for all concerned (e.g. third
cousins, twice removed),  you have to look at each person individually.

Here is the formula I was taught many years ago in Anthropology 101:

Taking yourself (or any individual) as the starting point: the children of
your parent's siblings are your 1st cousins.  To you, all your 1st cousins'
children are "1st cousins, once removed"; their grandchildren are "1st
cousins, twice removed; their great-grandchildren, "thrice removed;" and so
on.

The children of your grandparent's siblings are your 2nd cousins.  The
removes work the same way.

The children of your great-grandparent's siblings are your 3rd cousins.

And so on through the generations.  However, if you were to start with one
of your cousins who is "removed" from you instead of yourself, the names of
some of the people in the progression would be the same but their titles
(2nd cousin, third cousin, once removed, etc.) would be different.

An example:  my father's sister (Aunt Joy) has a son, Arthur -- he is my 1st
cousin.   Arthur has a daughter Corinne -- she is my 1st cousin, once
removed.  Any children Corinne might have will be called by me "1st cousins,
twice removed."  However, if Corinne looks at our relationship, I am the
child of her grandmother (Joy's) sibling, thus her 2nd cousin.  Corinne's
children will call me their 2nd cousin, once removed.  Same people, but
depending on where you start from, different relationships. Make sense?  As
Hugh Jefferson suggested, a chart does help.

Paul's formula works quite well as a shorthand approach once you understand
the theory behind it.

Kathy

P.S. for Pete:  From what you wrote the "cousinship" is through "H;"  it
doesn't matter about different wives.  Cousins are not related to everyone
in each others lines unless you're part of the royal family :-)  Using the
above formula, calculate what your relationship is to L; then what his is to
you.  It will appear to be two different degrees of cousinship (remember,
this is all only about terminology); the only generic term that applies to
both of you is "cousins," period.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Priestley Toulmin" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] VA-ROOTS Digest - 3 Feb 2004 to 4 Feb 2004
(#2004-25)


> Whoa, Paul, it isn't always that easy -- or obvious.  Consider:  I have a
> cousin, whom I'll call L, whose 4th great-grandfather (I'll call him H) is
> my 2nd great-grandfather.  Counting up my line, we are third cousins twice

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