Jack, I agree with you.  And I would add that some of
"stealing" is innocent, if thoughtless.

Many of the people on the net aren't trying to write a
book - they are just trying to find their family. That
*feels* less formal. They feel they are only
researching as a gift to their own family. I think its
possible that they don't realize that copyright and
courtesy still apply to them, even on the informal
internet.

What really irks me are the people who have huge
sites, and understand copyright enough to have every
page stating, "I worked 20 years on this.  Please
don't steal my work."   You look through their 20
years of work, and there is not one citation to the
hundreds of sources they must have used.

I reached one such site this morning, when I was
trying to find a definition. It was an excellant site
for information - with warnngs and pleas not to
violate copyright on everypage. I found the
definition, which was obviously straight out of a
legal dictionary. It can't use it because no source
was given. I'm not going to use the owner of this page
as my source, and the page doesn't state the published
dictionary that was used, so its absolutely useless.
That is a lot of work to produce "useless" and
egocentric.

This type of site is only going to confuse newcomers
concerning copyrights.

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking of writing
to the owner to suggest that sources be added to every
page so that the material can be used by researchers.

What do you think?

Langdon Hagen- Long


--- Jack Fallin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dear Marie,
>
> I think many of us understand completely.  We all
> have had problems;
> worse than sloppy in-family researchers, there are
> actually people out
> there who plunder others' work and then "publish" it
> on the web for
> families with which they themselves have no
> connection!  On the other
> hand, if you just "lurk" a little while, you can
> usually spot such
> problems before they take you over.
>
> There are also some common sense routines.  Because
> much of "my" data
> is founded on the work of a dear internet friend ,
> I (with his
> permission) will only give out specific data,
> credited to him, in
> response to direct questions.  But I will work to
> find something, even
> if it means considerable new work, to answer any
> good faith inquiry.
> With 98% of the web-folks, if you simply put
> something in your cover
> note about crediting yourself or someone else you
> benefitted from if
> the material is re-published, it will be done.
> Innocent forgetfulness
> is probably more of a problem than any deliberate
> plaigarism.  You can
> also help the situation by passing on warnings (e.g.
> about folks who
> suddenly publish 5 works on unrelated families), to
> your nicest
> co-researchers, whose first inclination is probably
> to open up to
> everyone.
>
> The web has been very very good to me, primarily by,
> after just a
> couple of years, putting me in touch with others
> whose labors I need
> not repeat and whose material, with a narrower
> focus, I can usually
> enhance.  With just a little care, it should work as
> well for everyone.
>
> Jack Fallin
> Walnut Creek, CA
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2004, at 9:00 PM, Automatic digest
> processor wrote:
>
> > There is one message totalling 48 lines in this
> issue.
> >
> > Topics of the day:
> >
> >   1. Lessons Learned
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe
> please see the
> > instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date:    Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:06:31 -0500
> > From:    Marie McKinney <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Lessons Learned
> >
> > Just a few notes to allow myself the opportunity
> of relieving a little
> > frustration.
> >
> > 1) Am I the only person who takes offense when I
> share documentation
> > with
> > someone, and that person posts the documentation
> as his own, offering
> > no
> > credit to the source of that documentation?
> >
> > 2)  Am I the only person who feels cheated when
> another person offers
> > to
> > share information, and after that person is
> provided the documents they
> > needed, he or she sends nothing in return (much
> less a thank you)?
> >
> > 3)  Am I the only person who believes that
> multiple people researching
> > within the same family line might be more
> efficient, effective,
> > productive, and accurate if they worked in tandem?
> >
> > I know I'm no the only person who has been lied
> to, taken advantage
> > of, or
> > excluded in some manner.  I have invested a great
> deal of time, effort,
> > and expense in efforts of identifying my ancestry.
>  I have also been
> > very
> > free in sharing the documentation I have compiled.
>  However, I nearly
> > blew
> > a gasket when, tonight, I came across a posting by
> a former "associate"
> > making reference to a will and death certificate
> in our line.  These
> > particular documents were obtained by me through a
> great deal of
> > research
> > and persistence, and shared with the above
> mentioned individual in
> > hopes
> > that he might benefit in his research.  Did he
> credit his source of
> > information?  NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!  Not only did he
> fail to credit his
> > source, he also inaccurately transcribed the death
> certificate into his
> > site.  What a waste!
> >
> > I have a PAF on my PC to assist me in fleshing out
> my line.  I refuse
> > to
> > post a Gedcom for one reason only -- I am not
> satisfied that my lineage
> > and supporting documentation is 100% accurate at
> this moment in time.
> > I
> > have been led down too many dead ends & wrong
> turns by alleged
> > researchers
> > and their presumptive postings.  I would hate to
> be responsible for
> > wasting another person's time and energy with
> faulty information.
> >
> > Rest assured, when my Gedcom goes "live", you will
> be able to bank on
> > it.
> >
> > Marie McKinney
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe
> please see the
> > instructions at
> > http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-roots.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of VA-ROOTS Digest - 18 Nov 2004 to 19 Nov
> 2004 (#2004-238)
> >
>
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> >
>
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> see the instructions at
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>

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