I don't actually think this was wide spread Nancy. At one time my Buford and McDowell lines were the largest land owners and slave owners in VA and PA. as well as KY. They made a point of teaching ALL their servants how to read and write. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you think the "Lower Classes" represented. so we could better understand what you mean. Most all the "schooling" was done in the home in which a student lived. It was taught by an educated person who also lived in the same home and often the neighbor children were included in the classes and the neighboring families who lived too far away for their children to walk or ride their horses to the home of the Tutor would board with the Tutor's family. I have never heard of anyone considered as the "lower class" to be purposely denied an education.
Best regards, fern
www.bufordfamilies.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sunshine49
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] A question re: education........
But there was a point, I think in the early 1700s, where schooling
was discouraged, the gentry even said they did not want the lower
classes to be educated.
Nancy
-------
I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.
--Daniel Boone
On Dec 4, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Harold Gill wrote:
> I'm not so sure that the gentry "tried to keep the 'lower classes'
> here from becoming literate." Every apprenticeship indenture in
> Virginia required that the apprentice be taught to read and write
> and some even specified the number of years schooling the
> apprentice was to be given. Most poor orphans were apprenticed as
> well as the children of poor people.
> HBG
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunshine49" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [VA-ROOTS] A question re: education........
>
>
>> An exception to this could be immigrants from England, where they
>> had very good local schools, usually run by churches but
>> occasionally by some wealthy local citizen, where children were
>> taught to read and write, chiefly so they could read their
>> Bibles. Virginia aristocracy, unfortunately, actively tried to
>> keep the "lower classes" here from becoming literate, thinking
>> that would better keep them content with their station in life.
>> But many, many English immigrants, even indentured servants in
>> the 1600s, could read and write.
>>
>> That's an excellent book, though, and fascinating to read.
>>
>> Nancy
>>
>> -------
>> I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.
>>
>> --Daniel Boone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Cynthia McDaniel wrote:
>>
>>> According to Albion's Seed by David Hackett Fischer, literacy in
>>> VA during
>>> the 17th century depended upon your station in life. Among the
>>> gentry,
>>> almost 100% were literate. They educated their children with
>>> private
>>> tutors. Below that rank, the figure of literacy declines:
>>>
>>> Status of Father Male Female
>>> High 100% 100%
>>> High Middle 87 80
>>> Middle 80 17
>>> Lower Middle 44 20
>>> Lower 50(?) 5.3 (I suspect the first figure for males is wrong
>>> since it is higher that the figure for the lower middle
>>> class...but that's
>>> what Fischer says.)
>>>
>>> According to Fischer, the prevailing attitude of the gentry was
>>> that it was
>>> "better be never born than ill-bred (i.e., unschooled)" if you
>>> were of the
>>> elite class. However, for other classes, the attitude of the
>>> gentry was: "I
>>> thank God there are no free schools nor printing...for learning
>>> has brought
>>> disobedience and heresy, and sects into the world, and printing
>>> has divulged
>>> them, and libels against the best government. God keep us from
>>> both!" This
>>> attitude was in place in England (southeastern part) long before
>>> slaves were
>>> brought into VA in large quantity.
>>>
>>> Fischer says that the libraries of the gentry sometimes rivaled the
>>> libraries of colleges. But the yeomanry owned fewer books and
>>> servants
>>> owned nearly none.
>>>
>>> I think the idea that the first son would be educated the most is
>>> likely. I
>>> base this opinion on the research of my own line. In a
>>> collateral line of
>>> mine, the Scarboroughs, Edmund Scarborough and his second son,
>>> Edmund, came
>>> to VA about 1633. Edmund I's first son, Charles, was in college
>>> in London
>>> (Caius College). Charles (the first son) was christened in Dec
>>> 1615 in
>>> London, graduated from Caius College in Cambridge in March
>>> 1633/1634 at
>>> 17/18 and graduated from A.M. of Caius College in 1639. He was the
>>> physician for King Charles II, James II and William III.
>>> Because Edmund II
>>> accompanied his father, it doesn't appear that he went to
>>> college (he was
>>> two years younger than Charles). He may have been self-educated
>>> after
>>> coming to VA because he advanced in station to Lt. Colonel and
>>> served as
>>> Speaker of the House of Burgesses, was a merchant with several
>>> vessels
>>> traveling between Massachusetts, MD, VA and England (and
>>> possibly SC). He
>>> was the largest land owner in VA at the time and a fierce
>>> competitor in
>>> ensuring his self-interest. (He moved the line between MD and VA
>>> to maintain
>>> his property in VA...the line was changed after vigorous protest
>>> by the
>>> Governor of MD. Nor was he friendly towards Native Americans
>>> who referred
>>> to him as the "Conjuror".
>>>
>>> As far as colleges in the Americas, the College of William and
>>> Mary was the
>>> second college established in the Americas in 1693 so the gentry
>>> did not
>>> have to send their sons to England.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cynthia McDaniel
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Research and writing about Virginia genealogy and family
>>> history.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of nelhatch
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:03 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: [VA-ROOTS] A question re: education........
>>>
>>> HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com
>>> HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/
>>> HDNAtest.htm
>>> "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val
>>> D Greenwood
>>>
>>> I have a question (or two) about the customs in the 1600s
>>> regarding the
>>> education of one's sons.
>>>
>>> For a man of above average means, was it the norm to educate
>>> one's sons in
>>> England? Or might only the eldest son be given this type of
>>> education?
>>>
>>> What would the age of a young man have to be to enter college? I
>>> believe one
>>> would graduate college in that time period at about the age of
>>> 18? Is my
>>> thinking correct on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any input on this!
>>>
>>> Nel Hatcher
>>>
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