ooops, that should be France as in the country....:)
On 3/3/07, Coats Family History <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There is no state or federal forum at present in the courts for
> redress of dis enrollment by the tribes...tribes are sole decision
> makers of their internal affairs..due process is satisfied by a tribal
> council hearing or a membership committee hearing, then appeal to the
> tribal council...federal case precedent is that the tribes are the
> sole decision makers on this issue...except of course the Cherokee and
> that 1866 Treaty....although the courts may treat the Tribes as
> *corporations* for some purposes, today the concept is self
> determination for a sovereign Nation and we can't tell say Frances
> what to do, likewise the feeling is they can't tell the Indian Tribes
> what to do....thus the Tribal decisions are final...
>
> On 3/3/07, Debra Jackson/Harold Forsythe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I am not a lawyer but I would be careful about discounting expelled tribal
> > members' rights even without the 1866 Treaty that the Cherokee engaged.
> > This is a very tricky area of law. Think, for example, if Indian nations
> > are corporations, how the law of invest rights in corporate law might apply.
> > If I can prove that I held stock in a corporation for 100 years, that I
> > acted and benefited as a member of the corporation, then what now are my
> > rights when other stockholders vote to exclude me?
> >
> > American Indian nations are not private clubs. The Civil Rights Act of 1964
> > does not extent to private clubs, which may discriminate. But if nations
> > act like private clubs, denying equal protection and due process to
> > previously presumed members, what then is the legal status of their
> > privileges, such as building and operating casinos. It is telling that
> > excluded members have sued for equal protection in casino creation. This is
> > going to be very messy because it is clear that reduction of membership, say
> > for the Pachanga, can reasonable be implied to be a strategy to increase
> > individual subsidies from casino profits for remaining members of the
> > nation/corporation in good standing.
> >
> > Harold S. Forsythe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Coats Family History" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: MSNBC.com Article: Cherokees may expel slaves_ descendants
> >
> >
> > > Yes, in some cases the casinos have made a difference...but each tribe
> > > handles the earnings differently...Pachanga gives it out per capita,
> > > which means each member of the tribe, each adult member of the tribe
> > > that is, gets about $20,000.00 per month...but most then turn and use
> > > the funds to improve the tribal government or reservation life...the
> > > Cherokee's however, don't do that...
> > >
> > > The Freedmen have filed suit in Federal Court over this, case still
> > > pending...but they have also filed in the court of claims for their
> > > own casino...which I thought was interesting...along with other
> > > monetary demands...
> > >
> > > So it is indeed an interesting case only because of the 1866 treaty,
> > > otherwise, the federal government would not get involved and
> > > membership would be left up to the tribes with no way for disenrolled
> > > members to seek out a remedy...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/3/07, Anita L. Henderson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >> In a message dated 3/3/07 9:17:37 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > This has nothing to do with fear and prejudice. This has everything to
> > >> > do
> > >> > with defining and enforcing membership requirements, with the decision
> > >> > being
> > >> > put before the membership in a valid and legal way and voted upon by
> > >> > that
> > >> > membership. One either is eligible or one is not. Political correctness
> > >> > requires that no one of any race, religion, origin, sexual orientation,
> > >> > blah blah
> > >> > blah, be denied membership in anything for any of those reasons, which
> > >> > ultimately means that no one can have a club, an association, or any
> > >> > gathering of
> > >> > any kind restricted by anything. I'd bet my first-born's inheritance
> > >> > that if
> > >> > only Caucasians were at risk, public outcry would be minimal (and
> > >> > unreported
> > >> > by the press) or non-existent. Either the Cherokee are a
> > >> > self-regulating
> > >> > group or they are not. "Sad" would be if the federal government decides
> > >> > to
> > >> > step in and wave its magic wand on behalf of the "disenfranchised."
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> wrote: My brother took a DNA test
> > >> > which
> > >> > showed our paternal line to be at least 1/2
> > >> > Native from Columbia South America. We were surprised at those results,
> > >> > as
> > >> > our forebearers were slaves in South Carolina. I have proved several
> > >> > Native
> > >> > lines and am a member of a State Recognized Tribe in Virginia. One of
> > >> > my
> > >> > friends has Sioux lines, but cannot join the tribe, because her mother
> > >> > was
> > >> > adopted out and her race was turned to white. I don't know what to
> > >> > think
> > >> > about this situation, but my hope is that we will all realize fear and
> > >> > prejudice are our greatest enemy. They will destroy us long before our
> > >> > enemies make it to the door.
> > >> >
> > >> > Anita
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Dear Anita and Emma?:
> > >>
> > >> Your statements both are valid. In the old days (30 years ago or
> > >> earlier),
> > >> it wasn't fashionable to admit to Indian let alone black ancestry.
> > >> Everything was SHHHHHH!!! After the Hemings/Jefferson news event of
> > >> several years
> > >> ago, I noticed that phenotypically white folks were admitting very
> > >> proudly that
> > >> they had black ancestry.....what a difference a few years make ;-0!! I
> > >> also
> > >> suspect the previously impoverished Indian tribes have had a economic
> > >> turnaround with the advent of casinos on the reserves which has brought
> > >> out every
> > >> Indian wannabe out of the woodwork. It is a shame that has happened as
> > >> it has
> > >> caused some of these tribes to block out folks who are valid members of
> > >> the
> > >> tribe. To illustrate my first point, I recall a funny incident
> > >> related to me by
> > >> a fellow member of AAHGS (Afro-American Historical and Geneaological
> > >> Society), the largest black geneaology group in the US. As a retired
> > >> person, she
> > >> frequently volunteered on the old 4th floor location of the National
> > >> Archives in
> > >> DC helping out novice geneaologists. One day a few months after the
> > >> Hemings/Jefferson news broke a very excited, young white man approached
> > >> her with a
> > >> request to help research his black ancestors. She remarked chuckling,
> > >> how
> > >> much had changed in her lifetime with regards to race! I do recall on
> > >> the
> > >> African Lives program from last year on PBS, the Penn State geneticist
> > >> Mark Shriver
> > >> who did the geneaology for the 8 prominent African-Americans, commented
> > >> that
> > >> there was a sizeable percentage of the present day white population whose
> > >> had
> > >> ancestors dating from the 17th-early 19th century with either Indian or
> > >> black
> > >> ancestry. Shriver checked his own DNA and found out he had 11% African
> > >> ancestry! People forget that intimate contact between white and black
> > >> indentured
> > >> servants was primarily consensual which diminished with the death of the
> > >> indentured servitude system. An interesting book entitled "We Were
> > >> Always Free,
> > >> The Maddens of Culpeper County, A 200 Year Family History" by T. O.
> > >> Madden,
> > >> the great grandson of Willis Madden touches on this. Amazon.com: We
> > >> Were
> > >> Always Free: The Maddens Of Culpeper County, Virginia, A 200-year Family
> > >> History
> > >> (The Virginia Bookshelf): Books: T. O. Madden,Ann L. Miller He was the
> > >> free
> > >> black grandson of an Irish indentured servant mother and a black enslaved
> > >> father. The children and subsequent generations were free and Madden by
> > >> the time
> > >> of the CW was the biggest taxpayers in Culpeper County. He owned a
> > >> popular
> > >> tavern and inn just southeast of Culpeper CH which was ironically trashed
> > >> by
> > >> the Union Army. The Madden family still lives in Culpeper and Willis
> > >> Madden's
> > >> story is prominently featured in the wonderful Culpeper County Historical
> > >> Museum.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Anita L. Henderson
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> **************************************
> > >> AOL now offers free
> > >> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> > >> http://www.aol.com.
> > >>
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cherokee Basketweaving Books:
> > > http://stores.lulu.com/cherokeebasketweaver
> > >
> > > See more of my Baskets:
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/cherokeebasketweaver/
> > >
> > > Visit the Family History Store at LuLu:
> > > http://www.lulu.com/allfamilyhistory
> > >
> > > Can't find the records you need and you're a male surnamed Coats or
> > > varitation, order a DNA kit to join our DNA project:
> > > http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=A59642&special=True
> > >
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> > > http://www.coatsarchive.us
> > >
> > > Baker DNA Project
> > > http://www.bakerdna.net/
> > >
> > > Need Original Records?
> > > Pages through Time
> > > http://www.pagesthroughtime.us
> > >
> > > Becoming a grandmother is wonderful. One moment you're just a mother.
> > > The next you are all-wise and prehistoric.
> > > ~Pam Brown
> > >
> > > Grandchildren don't stay young forever, which is good because
> > > Grandaddies have only so many horsey rides in them.
> > > ~Gene Perret
> > >
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> Cherokee Basketweaving Books:
> http://stores.lulu.com/cherokeebasketweaver
>
> See more of my Baskets:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cherokeebasketweaver/
>
> Visit the Family History Store at LuLu:
> http://www.lulu.com/allfamilyhistory
>
> Can't find the records you need and you're a male surnamed Coats or
> varitation, order a DNA kit to join our DNA project:
> http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=A59642&special=True
>
> Coats Archive
> http://www.coatsarchive.us
>
> Baker DNA Project
> http://www.bakerdna.net/
>
> Need Original Records?
> Pages through Time
> http://www.pagesthroughtime.us
>
> Becoming a grandmother is wonderful. One moment you're just a mother.
> The next you are all-wise and prehistoric.
> ~Pam Brown
>
> Grandchildren don't stay young forever, which is good because
> Grandaddies have only so many horsey rides in them.
> ~Gene Perret
>
--
Cherokee Basketweaving Books:
http://stores.lulu.com/cherokeebasketweaver
See more of my Baskets:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cherokeebasketweaver/
Visit the Family History Store at LuLu:
http://www.lulu.com/allfamilyhistory
Can't find the records you need and you're a male surnamed Coats or
varitation, order a DNA kit to join our DNA project:
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=A59642&special=True
Coats Archive
http://www.coatsarchive.us
Baker DNA Project
http://www.bakerdna.net/
Need Original Records?
Pages through Time
http://www.pagesthroughtime.us
Becoming a grandmother is wonderful. One moment you're just a mother.
The next you are all-wise and prehistoric.
~Pam Brown
Grandchildren don't stay young forever, which is good because
Grandaddies have only so many horsey rides in them.
~Gene Perret
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
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