Lyle,
Can you cite any cases where a white man was convicted of raping a slave,
especially his own slave or that of a close relative? Had Thomas Jefferson
or his brother acted without Sally's consent, what course would she have
taken to achieve justice? How often was such a course successful? How often
was it attempted?
Is "broadbrushing" in error? There is a legal terms that mean "the thing
stands for itself" (can't remember my latin at the moment), and I think that
is relevent in this case.
My personal feeling is that the statement of the mother should stand as
unequivocable proof of the paternity of a child until or unless it is proven
otherwise. Sally told her children who their father was. End of issue. She
told Eston a different story from Madison. There were two different fathers.
But, Madison said his mother said that Thomas Jefferson was his father, and
in absence of any solid proof that this is wrong, that should be the end of
the matter.
Is there one shred of evidence that Thomas Jefferson was not the father? He
said that Callendar's allegations were wrong except for the one for which he
was compelled, for the sake of the honor of the cuckolded husband, to admit.
TJ even lied to his daughters prior to being forced to confess, about his
behavior, and even in his apology, admitted that he misbehaved once, when
young and unmarried, whereas the woman he wronged had said he persisted over
10 years, including after he was married and even when in the same building
as his wife. So, if we apply Herbert Barger's standards of "liars", I think
we can assert that on this issue we cannot accept Jefferson's word that he
didn't do it.
Anne
Anne Pemberton
[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/apembert
http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: What is the current defination of "revisionist history"?
> It seems to me that you are rather broad-brushing the issue. Outright
> rape was and is illegal, despite the roadblocks that were put into place
> to exclude blacks from the courtroom.
>
> Coercion, both overt and covert, undeniably took place. But your claim
> exceeds the bounds when it asserts that all such acts were coercive.
>
> You are also of the mindset that the impetus was directly and only from
> the male. Bimbette of 20 snares rich old guy of 80 springs to mind.
> Purity of heart is not a universal, nor is venality, but it does exist.
>
> There are those situations which resulted in the marriage of the two
> individuals of different races.
>
> Life is way more complicated and it is difficult if not impossible to
> ascertain absolutes in individual cases. Historic trends rely on safety
> in numbers as to results, but as to motive, debates will continue.
>
> Lyle Browning
>
>
> On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Anne Pemberton wrote:
>
>> Herbert,
>>
>> I seriously doubt that you have found any of those authors "with their
>> hand in the till" to any greater extent than that of any other author
>> who write a book and expects to profit from the sales. Your constant
>> mischaracterization of people you don't know beans about is one more
>> nail in the coffin of your idea of "truth" vs "lies".
>>
>> As to my website, it is a volunteer effort on my part and the site is
>> provided by a charitable organization, The Enabling Support Foundation
>> http://www.enabling.org founded by a good friend, Dr. Robert Zenhausern
>> who provides all funding for the foundation and supports the server my
>> works lives on. You may find it of interest that my first website was on
>> Virginia's PEN (it has only come off in the past few months since I no
>> longer keep it up). I assume that you would know that Virginia's PEN,
>> for which I was one of the original builders, was the joint project of
>> the DOE and UVA. I ran the Academy One project on Virginia's PEN, which
>> was the forerunner of Educational Synthesis:
>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>>
>> You may also note that my website ends with a "org". That means I do not
>> market ANYTHING! The stories I write both under My Own Books and Famous
>> Americans, are free to any user, and the users are from just about every
>> country in the world. I have, as an aside, written one book, but it is
>> not on history, which is sold in a paper version. I do not "advertise"
>> it on this list and am not doing so now.
>>
>> Now, as to miscegynation, it is a disgrace when practiced, as is evident
>> in the current population in Virginia, without the consent of the woman.
>> As a slave, the woman had no right to refuse the master anything he
>> ordered, whether it was to service his needs, or that of his friends and
>> relatives. To assert that this cannot be "proved" without an admission
>> of the white man, is to continue, in the 21st century, the abusive
>> mindset of the time of slavery. Every one of those half-white children
>> had a father, and with today's scientific advancements, and those that
>> will come tomorrow, it IS possible to ascertain with scientific
>> certainty which white man did the deed. White men who practice abusive
>> sex are no longer shielded by the notion that only those children they
>> "acknowledge" are theirs.
>>
>> And, it is assertions such as you made today about mixed race children
>> being "fatherless" unless the skunk who did it chooses to "fess up" that
>> is the reason behind my statement that Jefferson, being a man and a
>> Virginian, and with the circumstancial evidence I've personally
>> examined, is highly likely to be the father of Sally Hemings children.
>> And, if he is not the father, but the uncle, he was a PIMP!
>>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne Pemberton
>> [log in to unmask]
>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert Barger" <[log in to unmask]
>> >
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: What is the current defination of "revisionist history"?
>>
>>
>>> Anne,
>>>
>>> If evidence found and supported by science or other provable historical
>>> records then I would consider that "historical information." On the
>>> other hand, if the researchers were "caught with their hand in the
>>> till"
>>> as I have found with people around the TJ/Sally controversy and their
>>> reports were biased/one sided and denied and HID a Minority Report and
>>> the head researcher had been hired to complement the study with their
>>> owned preconceived outcome........THEN I would say, "it's revisionist
>>> garbage."
>>>
>>> I would hope that your own highly advertised organization on these
>>> (state/commonwealth) supported pages, is not misrepresenting real
>>> research to purchasers of your material. You do ask for proof do you
>>> not?
>>>
>>> Herb Barger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herbert,
>>>
>>> I believe I am correct in saying that most historians of the last
>>> century
>>> were in agreement that Sumer (Sumeria) was the earliest civilization.
>>>
>>> Then, if I am reading a book that dates evidence of cities with public
>>> buildings and agriculture in Peru to at least as far back as 3500 BC
>>> based
>>> on evidence discovered in this century, would you consider that new
>>> historical information, or "revisionist history"????
>>>
>>> Anne
>>>
>>> Anne Pemberton
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>>>
>>> ______________________________________
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