Jeff,
It it cannot be proven whether or not Thomas Jefferon used Sally Hemings,
then it certainly cannot be known for certainty if Sally Hemings smelled bad
to TJ.
Further, it is not apparent that Sally did not know who the fathers of her
children were. She did not write it down, or if she did, he has not survived
... heck, we don't even know where she is buried.
So, if you are opposed to people forming and trusting conjecture, please be
so consistent as to apply the same criteria to your own "evidence".
Anne
Anne Pemberton
[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/apembert
http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Yojsouth
>
> You may recall that Henry VIII never consummated his marriage to Anne of
> Cleves (the daughter of the German Emperor) because, as he reportedly told
> Cromwell, she "smelled of the stable."
>
> Intentional lack of personal hygiene was a common form of contraception
> in
> England during medieval and later times. See, The Family, Sex and
> Marriage In
> England 1500-1800, by Lawrence Stone (Harper 1979). It seems to have
> been
> an effective tool vis-a-vis those of British heritage.
>
> If slaves were worked to death, 16 hours a day, with barely time to rest
> at
> night, and their quarters were as unsanitary and filthy as contemporary
> reports claim, there is no doubt that your average black indentured
> servant was no
> joy to be around. Nevertheless, Ms. Hemmings seemed to pop out babies
> from
> among her "homies" in the slave population left and right, not apparently
> knowing exactly who the fathers were in most cases.
>
> A fit paramour for the middle-aged TJ.....I doubt it and there is no
> factual
> evidence to definitively prove otherwise. Yet, apparently the Virginia
> public school system sees fit to allow its youth to be taught about TJ's
> parentage, probably in greater detail than what he really meant to the
> Commonwealth
> and the US.
>
> I am no huge fan of Jefferson. His figurative "wall of separation"
> letter,
> penned 13 years after Congress wrote the Establishment Clause (something
> Jefferson had absolutely nothing to do with drafting) was the basis for
> the
> Supreme Court leading us down the road of banning school prayer and a
> myriad of
> other Constitutionally bankrupt interpretations of the First Amendment.
> So, as
> far as I am concerned, there might not have been a "wall of separation"
> between Ms. Hemmings and he. However, without definitive factual proof,
> that
> allegation should not be made as if "everyone who has any brains" knows
> it to
> be true.
>
> Frankly, even I am tiring of this line of debate.
>
> JD Southmayd a/k/a J South
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/16/2008 11:56:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Spoken with smoke and mirrors. Thank you, Ms. Wills.
>
> I have not defended Yojsouth or attacked you. Not even remotely. Had you
> actually read my post, you would have seen that I asked questions.
> Questions
> to which you did not then or now respond.
>
> You accuse me of wasting good time and space. It is my time, not yours,
> and
> I will spend it as I see fit. As for the space, after reading some of the
> scathing posts directed to or about Yojsouth, I felt the questions I
> asked
> just might put a somewhat different light on the matter. You were free to
> agree, disagree, or refrain from any comment at all. But, as typical, you
> choose to take my post, denigrate it, and strut the holier-than-thou
> card.
>
> I recommend you read and follow your own words. Certainly if they apply
> to
> you they apply equally to all. I quote:
> "Unless and until I hear from the person that does monitor the board, I
> will
> assume that my post are on target. Again, I have received nothing from
> the
> ACTUAL monitors of the Virginia History List, so I will continue to
> post."
> and another "By the way, you do not own the list, and you do not control
> the
> information that flows on it." and another "Again, until the MODERATOR of
> the list pulls me aside and ask me to refrain from posting, I will post
> what
> I want. Now when a posting does not pertain to me I tend to pass it up,
> but
> you do not have the same restrains. Are you bored, why don't you get a
> hobby, such as Genealogy. After all you are right here at the site, why
> don't you use it?" and another "I wouldn't believe you if your tongue
> came
> notarized."
> These are your words, Ms. Wills. I did not make them up, change them, or
> comment on their worth.
>
> By your own admission you do see and read things from Yojsouth. Otherwise
> how do you account for the statement you made below, "...the only time I
> see
> anything from yosouth, is when someone responds and attaches his (mostly
> negative) post?" As for me, what on earth does the number of "posts you
> have
> responded to over the last week, let alone anytime prior to that." have
> to
> do with anything?
>
> You are correct about one thing, but you didn't go far enough. Allow me.
> This post AND your preceding post have nothing to do with the VA-HIST
> list.
>
> Tom
> Eastern Shore & More
> http://easternshoremore.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anita Wills" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Yojsouth
>
>
> Yes, and here you are wasting good time and space defending him (or
> attacking me). If you read my posts you would know that the only time I
> see
> anything from yosouth, is when someone responds and attaches his (mostly
> negative) post. I cannot tell you which posts you have responded to over
> this last week, let alone anytime prior to that. So it is interesting to
> me
> that you would make a statement like that about me. In fact I will not
> be
> reading or responding to any of your postings, since this is a Virginia
> History list, and you do not seem interested in History.
>
> Anita
>
>> Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:06:25 -0400
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Yojsouth
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> As I said, surmise what you will from the word "fear." From your three
>> sentences, I wonder if you bothered to read my entire post?
>>
>> I do not believe the subject of Yojsouth's identity came up until Tom
>> Ray
>> presented it yesterday, the 15th. As we can all see, that question has
>> been
>> answered.
>>
>> You apparently believe Yojsouth is hateful and ignorant. That is your
>> opinion and I do not have a problem with you having an opinion. If in
>> fact
>> he is hateful and ignorant, and I don't know that he is, I am glad it is
>> out
>> in the open. So many people hide behind veiled words and questionable
>> intelligence to cover their hate and ignorance from the public. They are
>> blind to their own shortcomings and, when confronted, refuse to
>> acknowledge
>> the possibility.
>>
>> On the other hand, you said "I do not read or respond to anything that
>> he
>> has written." Yet you seem to be in on every thread, complete with
>> comments,
>> on posts concerning him or what he has said. If you do not read what he
>> has
>> said, how can you comment at all about anything concerning him?
>>
>> Tom
>> Eastern Shore & More
>> http://easternshoremore.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Anita Wills" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yojsouth
>>
>>
>> I have not heard anyone say they fear Yojsouth. What people are saying
>> is
>> why does this person have to hide their true identity? I don't fear hate
>> and
>> ignorance, I pity it.
>>
>> Anita
>
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