This is all very interesting. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donald Locke
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Romany Gypsy people in Virginia

Christopher Columbus was reported to have brought Romany with him on his
4th trip to the new world. 

I have no doubts the numbers are grossly underestimated. England and
Scotland were doing all they could to rid themselves of their Roma
population. Add in Romany from Portugal and Spain, no telling just how
many Romany may have settled in the Colonies. 

If even 1 to 10 Romany were on each convict ship, their numbers would
have swelled to much larger numbers then the historians give credit for.

A Romany selling home made goods with out a Hawkers permit, could be
transported for this petty crime! So it did not take a whole lot of
effort on England's part to say one was a criminal and transport them to
the colonies. Just the simple act of trying to sell umbrellas, brooms,
combs, flowers, pegs ( clothes pens ), or what ever with out a permit
was a petty enough crime to transport a Rom to the colonies. 

I am not saying there were 1000's or tens of thousands of Roma's in the
Colonies, but there were far more then has been given credit for. 

The DNA side of the issue seems pretty clear in my eyes. 

The British Romany families of Lock(e), Lee and Burton in England have
DNA tested, all 3 families are in Y Haplo Group H*. 

The USA families from Virginia, Lock(e), Hite, Carter, Bailey, Ruffin,
Ingram, Jewell and Wormley are also in Y Haplo H* The USA families of
South Carolina, Bailey and Short are also in Y Haplo H* 

Carter, Ruffin and Wormley are mixed race families, who's ancestors were
former slave families. We don't know if their Romany male was a slave
owner or a slave himself. Still to early in our research to be certain
who the Roma male connection was in their trees. 
Jewell of Virginia to Barren County Kentucky is also another former
slave family, but we have just enough evidence to suggest his slave
ancestor Hannah was owned by Joseph Lock, and Mr. Jewell is a 66/67 DNA
match to me, so between the paper records and DNA testing, we can be
very certain Mr. Jewell's biological forefather was a Lock, possibly
Joseph Lock himself. We have a deed in which clearly states that Joseph
Lock deeded a slave named Hannah to one of Joseph's daughters in 1800 in
Barren County Kentucky. Mr. Jewell traces his slave ancestor to a slave
named Hannah in Barren County Kentucky. So we believe we have this one
connection figured out, Jewell is a Lock descendant. 

Privately funded DNA studies done on Romany across Europe shows that up
to 70 to 80% of all Roma males are in Y Haplo H*. 
This rare Y Haplo Group is most often found among men of India and in
Pakistan, but mainly in India. As some migrated out of India to Europe,
they brought with them this this rare Y Haplo Group H* with them and
introduced it in Europe. But because this group of new immigrants to
Europe pretty much stayed to themselves, they didn't actually spread it
around to Europeans. The Romany are a clanish people, and it is a taboo
to marry outside the clan, though many did so anyway. While still in
India, they wouldn't have been known as Gypsies. That term Gypsy was
given to them in Europe. 

At least one Roma group made it to England around the 1500's, possibly a
bit earlier no one knows for sure when they arrived in England. 
They were known as Egyptians which was false, but that name stuck with
them and the term Gypsy was derived from Egyptian. 
So from the very start, a slang term was placed on them that wasn't
correct. 

Y Haplo H* I am told is found in less then 2% of the world population,
it is rare but not the rarist Y Haplo Group in the world. 
Many of the DNA participants have since upgraded their DNA testing to
include the new Deep Clade SNP test, which I pushed to have developed. 
Y Haplo H was far to vague of an answer by it's self. I knew with this
new test if it were made available, would better break down this rare Y
Haplo Group in to smaller sub groups. Now with the existance of the new
SNP test, we now know the Romany males who have ordered this new test,
are all in Y Haplo Group H1a. So I was right in that Y Haplo H by it's
self was far to vague of an answer, the new test did exactly what I
anticipated it would, it brokes us down in to smaller sub groups of H. 

So it is very interesting to know that of all the Virginia and South
Carolina familys who upgraded to the new SNP test, were all placed in Y
Haplo H1a. 
And the Mr. Locke in England is also now placed in Y Haplo H1a, just
like I was place in H1a. So we now have 1 British Rom male who is in Y
Haplo H1a, which further supports my evidence that the Virginia families
in question, are in fact Romany descendants. 

I didn't stop testing with just me. I looked to the 3rd generation in
the USA because that generation is the first generation to have had
multiple sons with sons of their own. So I focused on locating male
Locke descendants who's branches came from that 3rd generation and ask
my distant cousins to DNA test. 

To date we now have 2 Rev. Jacob Lock descendants tested, 2 Joseph Lock
descendants tested and 2 John Lock though his son George Lock males
tested. Jacob, Joseph, and John Lock were sons of Richard Lock Jr b.
about 1699 who resided in old Frederick County Virginia and Berkeley
County Virginia 1755 until his death in 1775. The 3 sons were born in
the 1760's in Virginia, so my cousins who tested, are very distantly
related to me, yet we all are a DNA match to each other, because our
paper trail is solid back to Richard Lock Jr., he is our common male
ancestor. 
It is believed Richard Lock Jr. was likely married twice, but we can not
locate any marriage records for Richard Jr. in Virginia or Maryland. 

In all we now have 6 USA Locke's of my tree tested and 1 Locke in
England tested from his branch, and the 7 of us very distantly related
cousins are all a DNA match with each other, even at the higher marker
level testing. John Lock and family are the only Lock family of my tree
that remained in the Virginia's, and some of his descendants are still
in the Virginia's today. 

By studying the Romany DNA studies done in Hungary, Portugal and else
where in Europe, their studies clearly showed the Roma males they
tested, were found to carry Y Haplo H* in far higher percentages then
previously known about prior to DNA testing. 
Because the only Europeans who carry this rare Indian Y Haplo Group are
the Romany males, helps make that DNA connection to the Colonial
families. With more and more British Romany starting to get involved in
DNA testing, we will find even more connections between the British Roms
and their American cousins. In the very near future, a Mr. Smith who's
male ancestors was actually a Boswell I am told, Smith is a surname
change I am told, he will be the first Romany Boswell to DNA test to my
knowledge. 

It will take British Roms to get more involved in DNA testing, but as
more do join the Romnchel DNA project, we will have even more surnames
to compare to surnames here in the USA. And the more families of
Virginia, Maryland and South Carolina who get involved in DNA testing,
just may help paint a much bigger picture then what we know about right
now. I think this goes far deeper then most can imagine. 

Lock(e) is the first Romany family to make that connection between
England and the Colonies, but I highly suspect this is only just the tip
of the iceberg so to speak. The more British Roms who get involved in
DNA testing the better, their DNA tests will one day help show us of
more Roma connections to the Colonies. But it is going to take both
British and American's to get involved in DNA testing, so we have a far
larger population to study as a whole. 

Not even the DNA company and DNA experts on the web could explain to me
why Y Haplo H* was being found among Colonial American family's. 
I had to figure out that puzzle on my own, but little did I know it was
going to lead me in to this discovery of a Roma population in the
Colonies. 
Like I said before, just studying England and Scotland's records, there
is very clear evidence that they both were transporting Romany to the
Colonies as Criminals. Had they not done so back then, their Romany
populations in England and Scotland would be far larger then what they
are today. 
With that ever growing surname list that I shared in my previous email,
helps give us a good jump start in helping find Roma connections here in
the states from the Colonial era. I started that surname list with the
help of Romany researchers in England, who can confirm that list is
fairly accurate. 
But certain surnames from that list like Riley, are most likely Irish
Travelers who migled with the Romany. Bailey, Campbell and others are I
am told, part of the Scottish Romany clan known as the Faa clan. 

If one looks at the Montgomery County Maryland 1770's tax lists and 1790
census, that one County alone represents a very large number of Romany
surnames on that list I shared. Even if only 1% of the surnames in
Montgomery County Maryland are Roma, it starts to paint a much larger
picture of just how many possible Roma families may have been in the
Colonies pre 1800. 
It was almost spooky seeing Lock, Boswell, and at least 20 other Romany
surnames being listed in Montgomery County MD alone. 
And Lock and Boswell are no doubts a part of the same Roma clan in
England. And as many of you already know, a good many from Maryland
migrated to Virginia. 

Now that Ingram's of Pittsylvania County and Halifax County Virginia has
joined us in Y Haplo H*, the Ingram family tree is of great interest to
our research. By studying who married in to that Ingram lineage, can we
possible find other Roma connections to that Ingram tree. 
And that is a big part of this research, is understanding that when at
all possible, Roma married other Roma, it is a very strong tradition to
keep it with in the clan when they have a choice in the matter. One
researcher had an unconfirmed Ingram / Gardiner marrage, if that can be
confirmed, that also highly suggests Gardiner is a likely Roma
connection in that Ingram tree because Gardiner / Gardner is a know Roma
surname in England. 

This is still in the early stages of our research, but as more and more
families are discovered in Y Haplo H*, we will have more clues to follow
in the paper records. Most of the connections will likely be to common
English surnames who aren't Romany, but each connection must be followed
to see how it all may tie in together. I am only now starting to trace
my Hall, Edwards, Harper, Chapman, Harvey, Griffith and other family
connections in my Lock tree. But we are already seeing a clear pattern
between the related families and the Lock's! Where one family moved to,
others followed, some times in large numbers. And that clearly suggests
the related families just maybe British Romany also. Their surnames are
no doubts known Romany surnames, but proving they are Romany is another
matter. 

The cooperation between American's and British in DNA testing is the key
here. Getting descendants of the specific surnames in question involved
in DNA testing can help tell us much more details then what we know
about right now. Once we have the DNA confirmations and have the DNA
matches between the certain surnames in England to the USA, we can then
try to trace the paper records in one very specific direction, to link
the Roma families together using the paper records. 

So I highly encourage you who have Virginia, Maryland, South Carolina
connections with the surnames I posted, to get more involved in DNA
testing. 
I am working with the Romany and Travelers in England in hopes of
convincing them to get more involved in DNA testing. With each new DNA
match between surnames in England and the USA, more and more British
Roms will get more interested in this technology. Word is already
spreading throughout England about DNA testing, though many are still
very scared of this technology, so it will take time and patience to get
our British cousins more involved. 

And folks need to understand, many Romany are still very poor people
even today, and many can not afford DNA testing in England. 
Many Romany and Travelers are living on lands set aside for them by
their local councils, and many are still not well educated yet. 
There are many political issues that still remain between the Roms and
England even today, but things are no doubts far better today then what
they were even 50 years ago. Donations to the Romnchel DNA project is
also highly encouraged to help pay for free DNA testing for British
Romany who want to be tested, but can not afford to be tested. By
helping pay for free testing in England, we then help our own cause here
in the USA, because the more Roms and Travelers who are tested, the more
DNA matches to folks here in the USA will no doubts be found. 
I already have a list of 6 Romany in England on my waiting list for a
free test. But donations are very slow with our poor economy, but the
project has already paid for one free test that was sent to a Mr. Lee in
Australia who had personal knowledge of his Romany heritage. 

And that Mr. Lee was also in Y Haplo H*. So American's can greatly
benefit by helping British Romany and Travelers with free DNA testing,
by helping them we are actually helping ourselves, because that next DNA
match just maybe the connection many American's were looking for. 
Myself and one of my cousins paid to have Mr. Locke in England tested,
and it was money well spent because Mr. Locke who is a true Romany Gypsy
in England, is a 65/67 DNA match to me. So we have our genetic evidence
to make the family connection, now we just have to find the paper trail
connection to make it a 100% proven connection. 

If you are intersested in making a donation to the Romnchel DNA project,
you can contact me in private off the list and I will send you a hyper
link to the project where donations can be made. Any dollar amount
helps, it all adds up. 
I think this is a very worthy cause. I think in time, by DNA testing our
British Romany and Traveler cousins, we will see far more family
connections then anyone would have expected to find. 

This all started by pure luck, but because no one could tell my why this
rare Indian Y Haplo Group was being found among Colonial American
familes, caused me to strike out on my own to find the answers, and boy
oh boy little did I know just how important of a discovery this would
really be. 
In just 2 short years or less, I have already tied in the former slave
family who now goes by the Jewell surname, and tied in the Ingram's to
my tree. 
I can only imagine what will be next as more research is done. 

I have very little doubts in my mind that there are far larger numbers
of Romany who were in the Colonies then anyone knew about. 
For what ever their reasons were, our American historians never
researched this history. But it is a very important piece of American
history as far as I am concerned. This story has not been told yet, and
we can write that story given enough evidence and research. 

One of the Bailey lineages of South Carolina has a documented marriage
to an Ayers, and again Ayers is another known Romany surname. 
So we must study the families who have already DNA tested, their family
trees willl contain many more possible Rom connections that no one knew
the related families were likely Romany also. 

This is all still very early in the research, so there are still a lot
of unknowns here. But the initial genetic evidence seems very clear, the
Romany were here in the Colonies, and here far earlier then most
historians will acknowledge, 

Don 

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