Might this go back to the Middle Ages, when the king had right to be  
the first to lie with the new bride? So, if that's the case, the  
couple would then have to [maybe] post a sign that the king [or lord  
of the manor] had already had first dibs.

Yes, this is an interesting group. Who'd believe so many posts about  
such an odd topic...

Nancy

-------
I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.

--Daniel Boone



On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:23 PM, Randy Cabell wrote:

> What a varied menu one gets with VA-HIST.  I recall two recent so- 
> called
> origins of the eff word.  Having said that, I cannot recall the  
> first one
> which I think came from the German.
>
> The second is based on a legend that at some point in English History,
> fornication required the consent of the king.  And when he gave it,  
> the
> couple would hang out a sign which said:
> "Fornication Under Consent of the King", and as we do so today with  
> instant
> messaging, this was shortened, in this case to just the four  
> letters of the
> major words.
>
> An interesting story, but I have nothing further on it.  If I can  
> recall the
> other explanation, I'll forward that.
>
> Randy Cabell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Melinda Skinner" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] origin of the eff-word
>
>
>> From Wikepedia:
>>
>> ETYMOLOGY
>> Reputable sources such as the Oxford English Dictionary contend  
>> the true
>> etymology of f**k is still uncertain but appears to point to an
>> Anglo-Saxon origin.
>> The first known occurrence, in code, is in a poem composed in a  
>> mixture of
>> Latin and English sometime before 1500. The poem, which satirizes the
>> Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen  
>> flyys",
>> from the first words of its opening line, "Flen, flyys, and  
>> freris"; that
>> is, "Fleas, flies, and friars". The line that contains fuck reads  
>> "Non
>> sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk". Removing the  
>> substitution
>> cipher on the phrase "gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk" yields "non sunt in  
>> coeli,
>> quia fvccant vvivys of heli", which translated means "they are not in
>> heaven because they f**k the wives of Ely" (fvccant is a fake Latin
>> form).[2] The phrase was coded because of its meaning; it is  
>> uncertain to
>> what extent the word itself was considered acceptable.
>> Other possible connections are to Latin futuere (hence the French  
>> foutre,
>> the Catalan fotre, the Italian fottere, the Romanian fute, the vulgar
>> peninsular Spanish follar and joder, and the Portuguese foder).  
>> However,
>> there is considerable doubt and no clear lineage for these  
>> derivations.
>> These roots, even if cognate, are not the original Indo-European  
>> word for
>> to copulate; that root is likely *h3yebh-, ("h3" is the H3 laryngeal)
>> which is attested in Sanskrit (yabhati) and the Slavic languages  
>> (Russian
>> ????? (yebat'), Polish jeba?, Serbian ?????? (jebati)), among others:
>> compare Greek "oiphô", and Greek "zephyros" (noun, ref. a Greek  
>> belief
>> that the west wind caused pregnancy). However, Wayland Young (who  
>> agrees
>> that these words are related) argues that they derive from the
>> Indo-European *bhu- or *bhug-, believed to be the root of "to be",  
>> "to
>> grow", and "to build". [Young, 1964]
>> Spanish follar has a different root; according to Spanish  
>> etymologists,
>> the Spanish verb follar"(attested in the 19th century) derives  
>> from fuelle
>> ("bellows") from Latin folle(m) < Indo-European *bhel-; ancient  
>> Spanish
>> verb folgar (attested in the 15th century) derived from Latin  
>> follicare,
>> also ultimately from follem/follis.
>> A possible etymology is suggested by the fact that the Common  
>> Germanic
>> fuk-, by an application of Grimm's law, would have as its most likely
>> Indo-European ancestor *pug-, which appears in Latin and Greek words
>> meaning "fight" and "fist". In early Common Germanic the word was  
>> likely
>> used at first as a slang or euphemistic replacement for an older  
>> word for
>> intercourse, and then became the usual word for intercourse. Then,  
>> f**k
>> has cognates in other Germanic languages, such as Middle Dutch  
>> fokken (to
>> thrust, copulate, or to breed), dialectical Norwegian fukka (to  
>> copulate),
>> and dialectical Swedish focka (to strike, copulate) and fock (penis).
>> There is perhaps even an original Celtic derivation; futuere being  
>> related
>> to battuere (to strike, to copulate); which may be related to  
>> Irish bot
>> and Manx bwoid (penis). The argument is that battuere and futuere  
>> (like
>> the Irish and Manx words) comes from the Celtic *bactuere (to  
>> pierce),
>> from the root buc- (a point). Or perhaps Latin futuere came from  
>> the root
>> fu, Common Indo-European bhu, meaning "be, become" and originally  
>> referred
>> to procreation.
>> FALSE ETYMOLOGIES
>> One reason that the word f**k is so hard to trace etymologically  
>> is that
>> it was used far more extensively in common speech than in easily  
>> traceable
>> written forms.
>> There are several urban-legend false etymologies postulating an  
>> acronymic
>> origin for the word. None of these acronyms was ever heard before the
>> 1960s, according to the authoritative lexicographical work, The F- 
>> Word,
>> and thus are backronyms. In any event, the word f**k has been in  
>> use far
>> too long for some of these supposed origins to be possible.
>> One such legend holds that the word f**k came from Irish law. If a  
>> couple
>> were caught committing adultery, they would be punished "For Unlawful
>> Carnal Knowledge In the Nude", with "F**KIN" written on the stocks  
>> above
>> them to denote the crime.
>> Other explanations for f**k as an acronym for adultery offer  
>> alternative
>> wordings, such as "Fornication Under Carnal/Cardinal Knowledge," or
>> "Fornication Under [the] Control/Consent/Command of the King."  
>> Variations
>> on this theme include, "Fornication Under the Christian King",  
>> "False Use
>> of Carnal Knowledge", "Felonious Use of Carnal Knowledge", "Felonious
>> Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", "Full-On Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", and
>> "Found Under Carnal Knowledge"; and the closely related variant,  
>> "Forced
>> Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - a label supposedly applied to the  
>> crime of
>> rape.
>> In some reports, there are tombstones around English cemeteries  
>> that had
>> the word engraved in uppercase letters. These referred to those  
>> who were
>> put to death for crimes against the state and the church. These  
>> reports
>> have yet to be corroborated since no such tombstone has been  
>> identified.
>> Another story is that it was written in the log book as F**K when  
>> people
>> in the military or navy who had homosexual intercourse were being
>> punished.[citation needed]
>>
>>
>> --
>> Melinda C. P. Skinner
>> Writer and Wonderer
>>
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>> From: Diane Ethridge <[log in to unmask]>
>>> My son was a Legal Assistant in the USMC for 5 years & was  
>>> assigned to
>>> one
>>> of the top Lawyers in the Corps.   He was told that the word is an
>>> acronym
>>> for "Felonius Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" - to file in the "for  
>>> what it's
>>> worth" Dept.
>>>
>>> Diane in TX
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sunshine49" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:09 AM
>>> Subject: [VA-HIST] origin of the eff-word
>>>
>>>
>>> More than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure, but a friend went on a
>>> tear and had to find out how old the word was (someone had told her
>>> it was strictly 20th Century)...
>>>
>>> Nancy
>>> > The term's origin is likely Germanic, even though no one can as  
>>> yet
>>> > point
>>> > to the precise word it came down to us from out of all the   
>>> possible
>>> > candidates. Further, a few scholars hold differing pet  theories
>>> > outside
>>> > of the Germanic origin one, theories which appear  to have some  
>>> holes
>>> > in
>>> > them.
>>> >
>>> > 'F*ck' is an old word, even if it's been an almost taboo term  
>>> for  most
>>> > of
>>> > its existence. It was around and has been recorded in  English  
>>> since
>>> > the
>>> > 15th Century; it just wasn't used in common  speech all that  
>>> much, let
>>> > alone written down and saved for  posterity. Likely its meaning
>>> > contributed to its precise origin  becoming lost in the mists  
>>> of time -
>>> > scholars of old would have  been in no hurry to catalogue the  
>>> growth of
>>> > this word, and by the  time it forced its way into even the most
>>> > respectable of  dictionaries, its parentage was long forgotten.
>>> >
>>> > The earliest cite in The Oxford English Dictionary dates from  
>>> 1503.
>>> > John
>>> > Ayto, in his Dictionary of Word Origins cites a proper name   
>>> (probably
>>> > a
>>> > joke or parody name) of 'John le F*cker' from 1250,  quite  
>>> possibly
>>> > proof
>>> > the word we casually toss about today was  being similarly  
>>> tossed about
>>> > 750 years ago.
>>>
>>>
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