America is, I think, somewhat more complex than Mr. James Brothers suggests: 
"...different, and yes better, [in] that we recognize that all is not 
perfect in our society."
First, it is important to remember that there have been at least two 
powerful critiques of early modern and modern Western society:  the first 
the religious critiques that arose first as reform within the Catholic 
Church (Erasmus, Thomas More);  and then, even more powerfully outside the 
Church in the form of the rise of Protestant denominations.  Certainly, the 
core of their critiques were over the rituals, doctrines, and governance of 
the Church and churches, but they also had a civil critique as well (see 
Michael Walzer, The Revolution of the Saints:  A study in the Origins of 
Radical Politics [1968]).
    The second critique was overwhelmingly secular:  the Enlightenment.  If 
Americans tend to evaluate our society in terms of the potential for 
improvement, it is chiefly the result of the influence of the Enlightenment 
on the Founders and subsequent generations.  We must admit to ourselves that 
the major thinkers in that movement were not Americans at all.  France, too, 
has gone through constant upheaval over the nature of its state and society 
because of the influence of a school consisting chiefly of thinkers who were 
native French.
    Moreover, in the U.S. a common reaction to the discourse of 
self-critique is to discount such thinking as "hate America" rhetoric.  The 
freedom to speak in such a way is generally maintained but the legitimacy of 
critical thought about our own society is often stripped away.  For 
interesting historical reasons this is not so in contemporary France, 
because the political strains that had used such a swipe against free 
political and social thought in France since the days of the Dryfuss Affair 
got caught collaborating with the Nazis during Vichy.  That strain was 
totally discredited in modern France until the recent anti-immigrant 
politics of Le Pen, who remains a marginal figure even today.

    I guess my motivation for taking up a part of my Saturday to write this 
and a part of your Saturday to read it, is to warn us not to be too 
self-congratulatory about our uniqueness.  We are a complex people with a 
complex history and as yet an unknown destiny.  We are remarkably gullible. 
Avoiding current issues, may I only remind the list how we bought JFK and 
Lyndon Johnson, both good presidents in many ways, dreams of empire in 
Southeast Asia.  A century earlier much of the American elite bought "social 
Darwinism" hook, line, and sinker.
    We are a young nation, a young civilization:  Washington warned us about 
entanglement in foreign affairs but we did not listen.
    Now, back to Virginia history.

Harold S. Forsythe
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Brothers" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Official Opposition Events


> Having lived and worked in a number of other countries I think what  makes 
> the US different, and yes better, is that we recognize that all  is not 
> perfect in our society. We are still, after almost 200 years  as a nation, 
> a work in progress. While many other countries feel free  to point out our 
> warts, they seldom look at what needs improvement in  their own societies. 
> It is unlikely that any society will ever  achieve "perfection", but as 
> long as we keep plugging we are that  much closer.
>
> James Brothers, RPA
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> On May 12, 2007, at 8:20, Henry Wiencek wrote:
>
>> The issues with the Jamestown commemoration arise because we have  lived 
>> so
>> long in a cocoon of myth.  The bedrock of our national myth has  been 
>> that we
>> were born in a state of innocence.  It's the foundation of our  notion 
>> that
>> we are a good people, uniquely virtuous and blessed.  It's the  concept 
>> of
>> American exceptionalism.  This gives us our optimism and our sense of
>> justice.  We are a funny people -- we want to be rich and powerful and
>> perfectly innocent all at once.  I don't think anyone has managed that
>> throughout human history.  Sustaining that core belief in American 
>> innocence
>> has required a good bit of denial, not just about slavery and what  was 
>> done
>> to the Native Americans, but a lot of things. (Mormons are on the  hot 
>> seat
>> at the moment because their innocent origins have been called into 
>> question
>> by the PBS documentary that brought up the Mountain Meadows  Massacre. 
>> You
>> can find that discussion on H-SHEAR.)  Lots of new information  about our
>> past is just now being recovered, and we're all still processing  it.  So
>> there's controversy -- no surprise.  The big question is -- will  the 
>> weather
>> be good this weekend at Jamestown?
>>
>> Henry Wiencek
>> Charlottesville