Neil you do have a great and accurate grasp of the present TJ/Sally
controversy. You "hit the nail on the head" completely. GET Tom at any
cost! I, like you, do not try to balance slavery, black/white one way or
the other, these revisionist members of some recognized academic
institutions do and we know why. With me it is a matter of truth and
decency for anyone, not necessarily TJ..anyone. I caught them with their
hand in the till and will expose them at every chance as we ALL should. 

If I had thought that Monticello was doing a fair and unbiased study do
you think I would have spent ten years and many dollars opposing their
lies? I and my associates are many and REAL PATRIOTS and will always
stand tall for Mr. Jefferson. When I caught them I knew, along with
other numerous researchers and founded the Thomas Jefferson Heritage
Society (www.tjheritage.org.) Monticello had to sue us for our original
name, Thomas Jefferson Foundation, in Charlottesville Court they won,
took our name and now operate under that name having DROPPED "Memorial"
from their title.........who are they NOW memorializing? 

Is everyone now beginning to get the picture?? If we weren't here to
represent Mr Jefferson's legacy, then who? They may own his mansion but
NOT his cemetery or his legacy and that is what counts in my opinion.
It's costly and Monticello continues to drag in big bucks until the
public starts to investigate a little closer. A former Thomas Jefferson
Memorial Foundation Chairman once told me, "Dan is the best fund raiser
that they have ever had" and I am sure that is true, however, my
question was why destroy TJ's image in the process? Dr. Jordan retires
Nov. 1, 2008, with a flourish I am certain. Our fledgling competition
could use some of the money earmarked by meaningful donors there. If you
desire to assist please follow instructions at our web page.

Herb Barger    
Jefferson Family Historian
Asst. to Dr Foster on DNA Study
 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of macbd1
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] ANSWERS & IMPORTANCE - Annette Gordon-Reed

Anne, to continue after a very nice weekend, I understand even more now
that 
your 'quote' supposedly by TJ as a *teenager*, but more accurately from
his 
collection of literary excerpts in his Literary Commonplace Book, a
'quote' 
that you say is only from your memory, not directly from Kukla's
book..... 
and this is your supposed "damning evidence" against TJ...?

My introducing politics into our discussion is certainly not a sucker
punch 
for you to shrug off to readers. It is instead very pertinent to the 
'Cultural Wars' in our nation, and specifically for disussion at
VA-HIST, 
concerning the rather small academic group that is leading a frontal
attack 
against Thomas Jefferson and his great contributions to the founding and

growth of our United States of America. In fact, James D. Hunter,
Professor 
of Sociology and Religious Studies at the University of Virginia has
much to 
say about this in his book, _Cultural Wars: the Struggle to Define 
America_ -- that there is a battle raging between 'traditionalists' 
(conservatives if you will) who are committed to moral ideals inherited
from 
the past, and 'progressivists' (liberals) who idealize change and 
flexibility (even toward revising our nation's history.)  Hunter says, 
"these debates concerning the wide range of social institutions amount
to 
*_a struggle over the meaning of America."_* (emphasis added.)

Hunter goes on during a 2006 debate arranged by the PEW Research
Foundation 
to seemingly point his finger directly at VA-HIST's battleground and the

academic-elite attackers of TJ:

"What I have left out of this empirical part so far is the role of
elites, 
the political professionals, the special interest leaders. The critics
of 
the Culture Wars hypothesis tend to minimize their role or to dismiss it
all 
together. I find the role of elites to be extremely important, and it's 
precisely because of the disproportionate role that they play in framing

public discussion. It's they who lead the institutions, who have the 
resources available to them, who have a disproportionate access to the 
media. It is their sound bites that frame the debate. From my vantage
point, 
the power of culture is the power to define reality, the power to frame
the 
debate, and that power resides among the elites. But they are supported
in 
concentric circles by increasingly large numbers, though of less and
less 
passion."

What is not included here with regard to the attacks on TJ, and their 
attempted impact on how our nation's history is perceived, is the 
mis-information used by these academic elitists, their mis-stating of
facts, 
their mis-leading of the general public, and repeating these 'misses' so

many times that even Dr. Hardwick seems confused in his attempt at a 
conclusion (let's just compromise at TJ fathering 'some' of SH's 
children) -- while some of the general public now 'know' (with absolute 
certainty) that TJ fathered 'all' of SH's children, whether that be 6, 7
or 
whatever -- because that's what these academics have told them so many 
times -- and that DNA evidence proves it!(NOT, not even as to one
child.) 
Whether or not the public, or even a majority of academia, will go along

with a complete revision of our nation's history, its foundation and 
perception of our founders' images and beliefs, and in what context, is
yet 
to be seen -- recalling attack-leader Joseph Ellis speaking pejoratively

about TJ being "the dead white male who matters most" (to tear down) as
"the 
most valued trophy in the cultural wars" (today but what's next.)

In case you may wonder, I have no connection to/with Herb Barger or 
tjheritage.org.  In fact, he was likely surprised to see this staunch a 
supporter show up at a leftist academics' forum (for the most part.)
Like 
you, Anne, I am not a professional historian; instead retired from an 
entirely different technical/managerial career.  My interest is to
address 
some wrongs that I see in our world and this one readily caught my eye 
several months ago at VA-HIST with American history being one of my keen

interests.  This led to some serious research and here I am.  There is
much 
more to this TJ issue than counting the number of SH's children and 
speculating about their father(s?)  Btw, we've counted at least two of
the 
latter, ya know, so far, if you believe the DNA evidence, that Ellis
tried 
to wash-away in the second instance, but he wanted to keep the one
instance 
and s-t-r-e-t-c-h it to include a given name.

Finally, a little DWM / TJ levity or irony :

http://www.theblackrepublican.net/archives/002868.html

Neil McDonald

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