I think these sorts of animosities are pretty common in any academic
area. Just look at what happened with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Nancy
-------
I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.
--Daniel Boone
On Apr 3, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Maass, John R Dr CMH wrote:
> What is it about these kind of lists--especially this one--that
> seem to
> bring out animosities among people who share a common interest in
> history?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lyle E. Browning
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:29 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Despondent
>
> On Apr 3, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Vejnar Robert J. wrote:
>
>> Again, Mr. Browning, for some strange reason, refuses to listen to
>> what (or read) what the professionals in the field have determined.
> OH, I like that. Determinations are funny things. Some folks will
> cling
> to them as if they are dogma while others realize that they are moving
> targets.
>
>> I find
>> this both humorous and insulting. I did not spend years in graduate
>> school and years in the profession to be lectured by non-
>> professionals
>
>> on how best to preserve materials.
> Got up on the wrong side of the archive this morning, did you?
> Strictly speaking, we're not talking about preservation of materials,
> but rather the ability to have materials electronically available,
> equids of entirely different species, much less colors. We've gone
> from
> the originals to B&W smudgy copies in microfilm/fiche to B&W scanned
> copies in e-format to color copies in e-format. Techno- advances
> allowed
> that to happen.
>>
>>
>> I have not come across many archivists - because we have no
>> professional training in it - who would dare think they knew
>> enough to
>
>> instruct professional archaeologists on how to dig in the dirt.
> One of the strengths of archaeology is that we come from different
> backgrounds (or at least my generation and the preceding ones did) and
> we adapt our techniques to what works. We've had good ideas come from
> entirely outside the profession and adopt them wholeheartedly as we
> are
> smart enough to realize we don't know it all and are willing to learn.
> So, if you come onto one of my digs and have a good suggestion, I will
> adopt it. Or course, I don't speak for everyone and there may be a few
> hidebound diehards who won't listen, but they're well known anyway and
> won't listen inside the profession, much less outside it.
>
>> If the
>> archivists will refrain from trying to instruct archaeologists on how
>> to do their work then I would hope the archaeologists would refrain
>> from trying to instruct the archivists on how to do theirs.
> Instruct? Not me. I am simply relating how my limited knowledge of
> computers has allowed me to move all my stuff over from the various
> systems, formats and media to be currently useful. Other folks do
> it as
> well.
>
> The technology market will overtake those who spend a lifetime arguing
> about which standards and formats are going to work best. There are
> those who wait for the perfect solution and there are those who get on
> with it, imperfect as any system may be.
>
> Archaeologists use all sorts of tools generated by others to do their
> work, and are not generally inventing them. Archivists, as the keepers
> of the materials, are also adopting the technology, and are not
> generally inventing it. The LVA had a great initiative to digitize
> their
> map collection. It was expensive and it worked. Unfortunately, due to
> budget cuts, it was shelved. That has been lamented inside and out of
> LVA for years.
>>
>>
>> And no, if it's electronic, it is NOT necessarily migratable.
> But the other 99.99% is and that is my point. Certainly there is odd
> stuff that hasn't made it due to format issues. For instance, I can't
> get an old (1999) Sharp Zaurus ZR-5800 to talk with a current computer
> and there is nothing on the market that works that I can find. The
> software gurus who do the current edition Zaurus say there is no way.
> Good thing I got all my data out before that bridge went down.
>
> Lyle Browning
>
>
>>
>>
>> Robert Vejnar
>>
>> Archivist
>> Emory & Henry College Archives
>> Holston Conference Archives
>> P.O. Box 948
>> Emory, Virginia 24327-0948
>> 276-944-6668 - office
>> 276-944-4592 - fax
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lyle E. Browning
>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:20 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Despondent
>>
>> I've not completely been working in isolation for the last 25 years.
>> If I with all my myriad computers can do it, then there is absolutely
>> no reason why folks who do this for a living cannot do the same.
>> Arguing about how many electrons fit on the head of an electronic pin
>> (which "standard" is to be the one true benchmark of 100 years e-
>> standard) brings to mind the comment McGuffey had about a "gourd full
>> of gnats."
>>
>> Having gone through this discussion umpteen times on this and other
>> lists over the years, I have visited the various archivist websites
>> mentioned and what stands out is that the situation is analogous to
>> the war of the various computer systems competing for dominance in
>> the
>
>> infancy of computers. And I still see that the thinking is dominated
>> by folks with a paper-based mentality rather than forward looking to
>> electronic solutions. Sure, if one sticks a 3.5" floppy on a shelf
>> and
>
>> expects to read it 10 years later, one is absolutely pig-ignorant of
>> the media and gets exactly nothing unless one is very, very lucky.
>> But
>
>> if you see it as migratable media and go back over it, one has useful
>> data.
>>
>> Text based files, databases and the like aren't a particular problem.
>> Image files aren't a problem. In my world, CAD drawings that are put
>> into anything other than CAD go "flat" and have to be re-drawn if
>> needed for research. That's a problem. My simplistic solution is to
>> migrate my own files from the last 20 years into the next generation
>> or system of software and to keep them up to date. Surely if I can do
>> it, it can be done anywhere. At the macro level, there are programs
>> that do batch conversions now of image types.
>>
>> And at the risk of accusation of putting forth a "just-so" story: I
>> have also witnessed the migration of the archaeological and
>> architectural history records data from the Department of Historic
>> Resources from their refusal in the early 1980's to embrace
>> electronic
>
>> media to going with what was called IPS (Integrated Preservation
>> Software by the developer and Incredibly Persnickety Software by the
>> users) to the current imperfect but getting better DSS (Data Sharing
>> System?). IPS had an intentional bug in it whereby data migrated from
>> one field to the next unless the developer was there to "fix" it in a
>> timely fashion. When that was no longer possible, it took a while to
>> get it sorted out. But it did happen and those folks had no money but
>> the will to make it happen. It may not yet be perfect but it was
>> migrated from the old system to the new. The folks at DHR aren't
>> sitting around waiting for Godot, but rather are dealing with their
>> data and when a unified system comes along, it will undoubtedly be
>> moved across to it. In the meantime, research is better than it
>> was by
>
>> a long shot.
>>
>> After all, when it's electronic, it is migratable.
>>
>> Lyle Browning
>>
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