Sam--

This is good stuff--I hope we are not boring the rest of the list by pursuing it.  I think that discussion at this level of abstraction is useful because it pertains directly to concrete questions, like "what should we do with Fort Monroe?"

Many political philosophers adhere to an Augustinian view of human nature--the view so well summarized by Thomas Hobbes, and his assertion that life in a state of nature amounts to life in a state of war, and thus is "nasty, brutish, solitary, and short."

If we take a "realist" view, even one less extreme than that of Hobbes, then it is not at all obvious that people, left to their own devices, will choose to life together decently and civilly.  Respect for the rule of law may very well not be something that we can or should take for granted.  

If that is the case, then isn't it appropriate for the Government to "cultivate correct behavior" among citizens?  It does seem to me that there are certain dispositions towards good character that people will not or can not attain in an anarchic polity.  Respect for the rule of law, and a willingness voluntarily to submit to it, is one of these dispositions.  Since respect for the rule of law is the antithesis of tyranny, by definition, I do not see how we have to worry too much about this being the path to absolutism or despotism.  (We do have to worry a little bit, because it *is* possible for tyranny to exist in a majoritarian democracy--this is what Madison and Tocqueville worry about when they talk about "tyranny of the majority."  This is also, in part, what Lincoln and Douglas were debating in their famous Illinois debates while running for the Senate in 1858.)

More on point, I also think that a disposition by citizens to invest time and resources in scrutinizing the actions of their government is a healthy feature of republican government.  I do not think, on the whole, that this is the kind of thing that consumer markets habituate people to do.  Consumption teaches us to satisfy our appetites--an inward, private, and hedonistic ethic.  I don't see how one can move easily from hedonism to a healthy concern for public order.  It seems likely to me, although I am willing to be instructed on this, that a strictly libertarian society will produce a people who are motivated solely by their own selfish pleasures, with no concern at all for any collective good.

If Fortress Monroe can contribute towards inculcating respect for the rule of law, and for the maximum degree of  personal responsibility, self-reliance, and self determination compatible with ordered liberty, then I am all for expenditure of public funds to make that happen.  If Fortress Monroe can contribute to teaching about the government's necessary role in public defense against external and internal aggression, then I am all for that too.  If Fortress Monroe can teach about the dangers of tyranny of the majority, then that strikes me as a positive contribution to our civic life as well.  All of these agendas, it seems to me, make tyranny less likely in our country, and not more likely.  

Not everything that is old strikes me as worth preserving.  But to the extent that old things contribute to sustaining viable and vibrant republican government, it seems to me that we do have a collective interest in their preservation.

Respectfully,
Kevin

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:26:04 -0500
>From: Sam Treynor <[log in to unmask]>  
>Subject: Re: Ft Monroe & public funds  
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>Kevin,
>
>Your point that coercive means are sometimes justified is the justification
>usually used for minarchism as opposed to anarchism.  Robert Nozick's
>Anarchy, State, and Utopia is a good philosophical analysis of this
>territory.  Whether a minimal state is morally justifiable is a fascinating
>topic, but I doubt that any state is justified in using coercive means to
>cultivate "correct behavior" or character, beyond prohibiting trespass
>against the person or property of others.  That way lies tyranny.
>
>Sam
Kevin R. Hardwick, Ph.D.
Department of History
James Madison University

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