The problem with interpreting the past is that without literally a second by second description, multiple meanings can be had, resulting in multiple possible and chaotic interpretation(s). If a little guy comes prepared to what he's fairly sure will be his own clobbering, and he's living way nearer to the code duello than we are, does that mean he should avoid the big guy forever, or face it down, tell the oaf that he's going to have a severe problem if he continues, the big oaf continues and the result gunfire and results in a relative slap on the wrist. If he can't avoid the big guy without leaving school, what then? That's one interp. Even reading the court transcription, such as they were, one is not really any better off towards getting a good read on the situation.

A nasty bully who will not go away sometimes has to be pounded into the ground and sometimes more than once before they wake up to the fact that they're not the top dog anymore. And if you're half the size of the nasty, having some back-up for deterrence would help. That's another interp.

If the bully knew that Mosby had a gun and kept it going, then tough for the nasty, hence the relative wrist-slap as the law then entered into the equation and there are consequences with severity in theory relative to the situation.

The gray area in all that is that unless there's a perceptible intent on the part of the bully to maim or kill the other guy, then running it up to the next level is always going to be viewed as a bit dodgy. If the intent was there, then it's legit to defend with disproportionate force. But if you want to send a message to any and all that just because you're a little guy, the stompee will reciprocate and some moron is going to stomp you, then stepping it up IS more of a legit response. That's another interp.

Turning to the various internet responses, it appears that the code duello was involved, that Mosby never won a fight due to his small size, but he never backed down either and he packed the pistol to dissuade Turpin. Turnpin was described as a notorious bully who assaulted smaller students, one with a knife and another with a rock whom he nearly killed. Turpin appears to have met Mosby, and upon Mosby asking about the precipitating event, charged whereupon Mosby fired. There were two possible charges, a hung jury and in the end Mosby was convicted of the lesser of the two and given the max sentence.

To me, this falls into a very gray area wherein upper-class manners met lower-middle class manners. I fail to see the good in taking a beating and knowing it was likely to continue. Certainly in the code duello days, honor was of some import and it was ungentlemanly to treat another as Mosby was treated. And with a guy who had already demonstrated a propensity towards violence not only towards smaller students, but also with weaponry. The old admonition of don't bring a knife to a gunfight might be appropriate. Was Turpin armed in his encounter with Mosby?

With any of the above, I doubt that Turpin bullied many more folks;)

Lyle Browning


On Jan 25, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Walter Waddell wrote:

> I found Carlo D'este's error and noted it previous to reading your research as I wondered why a "killer" would have been released. "Mosby had come prepared" gives rise to wonder about the incident - the preception circumstances around the fact (it was a shooting and a wounding - true fact) but why? - (not exactly self-defense?)
> 
> I reckon this is very much in line with Virginia History discussion.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: 01242232Z13 Patton And Re: Rommel
> 
> 
> Carlo D'este apparently did not research John Singleton Mosby very well. The only men Mosby ever killed were Union soldiers during the Civil War. As a student at the University of Virginia (where he had already graduated in Greek Language and Literature), Mosby was expelled and imprisoned for a year for shooting another student in the neck with a pepperbox pistol- the student survived. While not exactly self-defense, his assailant, George R. Turpin, was a student nearly twice his size with a nasty reputation for manhandling students that he fought- Mosby had come prepared. John Singleton Mosby spent to seven months in jail, where he read law with his prosecuting attorney, William J. Robertson, and later after his release, set up a law practice in Bristol, Virginia. After the Civil War, Mosby developed a friendship with President Ulysses S. Grant. After an attempt was made on Mosby's life, Rutherford B. Hayes appointed him as Consul to Hong Kong. When Hayes left the Presidency, Mosby lost his position. Grant, just before he died, contacted Leland Stanford of the Southern Pacific Railroad about finding a position for Mosby, and he became the railroad's attorney in California, where he made frequent visits to the Patton residence. He later served as an attorney for the Justice Department in Nebraska and in Alabama, before returning to Virginia and private practice.
> 
> John
> 
> The Stuart-Mosby Civil War Cavalry Museum
> Centreville, Virginia
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> John C. Carter
> 
> [log in to unmask]
> Cell: 703-501-4578
> 
> On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Walter Waddell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> With respect to connections: Patton's early childhood influence from the frequent presence of John Singleton Mosby with the Patton family is documented on page 40 of Carlo D'este's, near definitive; "Patton - A Genius For War", Harper Collins; 1995.
>> 
>> "As for living heroes, George came to know a frequent guest of the Patton, the infamous Col. John Singleton Mosby, the Confederate guerrilla (pronounced correctly by using the Spanish "y" in place of the double "ll") leader. A prewar lawyer who had learned the law in prison after being expelled from the University of Virginia and imprisoned for killing another student. Mosby had migrated to California to work for ht Southern Pacific Railroad. Mosby delighted the impressionable young Georgie Patton with tales of the Civil War, all of which the boy absorbed like a sponge."
>> 
>> "Thus, by the time he entered his teens, Patton had not only learned firsthand of the heroics of the men of the Confederacy but had been indoctrinated in the classics: Shakespeare, Homer, Sir Walter Scott, and Kipling; books about heroes, kings, ..., and above all, to the great soldiers of history: Caesar, Belisarus, Scipio, Hannibal, Napoleon, Joan of Arc, and Joachim Murat. All engendered in Patton a sense that he was in this life a reincarnation of soldiers of the past, that he had served in bygone armies and fought in the famous battles of history."
>> 
>> I bring this to your attention for these two personal observations about this report: (A) I found D'este's work to a "love story" from Patton's birth to the outbreak of War World War II. I drew this to a point of my conclusion from the post World War I singular episode where Beatrice knocked a full Colonel to floor of a formal ballroom society affair and beat him repeatedly until "Georgie" rescued the Colonel and pulled his wife (Beatrice was born and bred high) from the poor wretch who made the mistake of making a disparaging remark about her husband in her presence and not that of her husband's; and, (B) the development of the character - Patton - by the constant reference to those past heroes and his dedication to emulate their virtues (sans "killer Mosby") as it apples to the following quote from the motion picture; "HUD". Therein, the character grandfather, played by Melvyn Douglas, tries to dissuade the younger brother from the nefarious attitude of his older brother, HUD, with this: "Little by little, the look of the country is changed by the men we admire."
>> 
>> A find a lot of history in that last line. Correctly or incorrectly, that's what draws me to investigation of our past.
>> 
>> Regards, Ray
>> 
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